The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020

[Secret1]

[QUOTE=Bob Viking;10651696]

I find the last sentence of your post odd. Are you saying that officers lack courage?

Colleague does have a sense of humour and we think it was evident when he spoke about the incident

[Could be the last?]

Picking up on previous comments with regards to citations, I would like to think that some may be an interesting read and outline the specifics of what personnel have done and why they have received their award! However, there seems to be a distinct lack of any documentation on the MoD web site or elsewhere on the web. Is there a ‘special place’ where they can be accessed or is there a requirement to submit a FOI request to get a read?

[t43562]

Originally Posted by Bob Viking

The local person doing civic deeds is very deserving of an award but probably reaches far fewer people in reality.

Famous sportsmen and artists have had their reward, however. They don't need any further recognition to help them do useful things or do things beyond "local." They are already well paid. Similarly with rich people or those of high rank. You can only say that civil servants can be paid less if you can give them status of some other form and that's useful.

Awards are not presents really but a way to empower without having to spend money - or at least I argue that's the most logical thing for them to be. In reality they are about politics of course.

[Easy Street]

Originally Posted by Could be the last?

Picking up on previous comments with regards to citations, I would like to think that some may be an interesting read and outline the specifics of what personnel have done and why they have received their award! However, there seems to be a distinct lack of any documentation on the MoD web site or elsewhere on the web. Is there a ‘special place’ where they can be accessed or is there a requirement to submit a FOI request to get a read?

See JSP761 paras 6.12 to 6.18. In summary: for operational awards and non-operational gallantry or bravery awards including AFCs (currently published in spring and autumn) some information may be released through the press. For the Birthday and New Year lists, nothing will be provided. FOI legislation does not apply as the information is treated as ‘personal’. Even the recipient may be refused sight of the full recommendation under an exemption from the Data Protection Act (recipients only receive a drastically shortened citation). You may be able to get hold of recommendations once they have been released to the National Archives but this will obviously be years after the event. The only exceptions to all this are the VC and GC, for which full citations will be published.

Originally Posted by Secret1

Colleague does have a sense of humour and we think it was evident when he spoke about the incident

It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

[MaxR]

Originally Posted by Easy Street

It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

Made me smile.

[alfred_the_great]

Originally Posted by Easy Street

See JSP761 paras 6.12 to 6.18. In summary: for operational awards and non-operational gallantry or bravery awards including AFCs (currently published in spring and autumn) some information may be released through the press. For the Birthday and New Year lists, nothing will be provided. FOI legislation does not apply as the information is treated as ‘personal’. Even the recipient may be refused sight of the full recommendation under an exemption from the Data Protection Act (recipients only receive a drastically shortened citation). You may be able to get hold of recommendations once they have been released to the National Archives but this will obviously be years after the event. The only exceptions to all this are the VC and GC, for which full citations will be published.



It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

there's at least one GC for whom the citation has not been released...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Haberfield

[charliegolf]

Originally Posted by alfred_the_great

there's at least one GC for whom the citation has not been released...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Haberfield

I deduce from the lack of detail that he didn't do much to deserve the GC at all. Probably a mistake.

CG

[Union Jack]

Originally Posted by Slow Biker

A friend was once the armourer attached to the RAF Regt detachment at Salalah where he was awarded the BEM for Gallantry following an incident with a mortar bomb. I'm not sure if such an award is current or has been superseded by the QGM.

Originally Posted by alfred_the_great

QGM is the level 3 award for gallantry not in the face of the enemy.

The QGM was introduced in1974, as Alfred correctly says, to bring an end to the situation whereby an identical gallant action not deemed to merit the award of the GC or GM, hence the "third degree of gallantry", was previously recognised with a CBE for a Captain RN, an OBE for a Commander RN, an MBE for a Lieutenant Commander RN down to Fleet Chief Petty Officer**, and a BEM for anyone of lesser rank or rating. Other equivalent ranks are available for other Services.....

Jack

** Correct in 1974

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Slow Biker

Was this person Dave P. ?


Aaron.

[Slow Biker]

Yes. Have exchanged Christmas cards for over 30 years, but nothing this year........

[Tankertrashnav]

Also, I thought the LS&GCM replaced good conduct stripes?

Not so, the RAF LS&GC has been in existence since the formation of the RAF. When I was dealing I once had one, a George V issue, named to a Serjeant (sic) Major, RAF. That must have been a very early award as that rank was superseded by Warrant Officer in the first year or two of the RAF's existence.

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav

Not so, the RAF LS&GC has been in existence since the formation of the RAF. When I was dealing I once had one, a George V issue, named to a Serjeant (sic) Major, RAF. That must have been a very early award as that rank was superseded by Warrant Officer in the first year or two of the RAF's existence.

Serjeant major was an Appointment for a Warrant Officer Class I in the army and thus the RFC ....... thereafter I know not.
Curious to know more about superseding in the RAF.
Is there chapter and verse please?

[In the Great War there was institutional confusion re, warrant officer/ sergeant major, in that warrant officer class I [from May 1915] was the overarching RANK of many APPOINTMENTS titled sergeant major. Records, medal inscriptions, and headstones flip wildly from one to the other.]