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Secret RAF flights in the UK

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Secret RAF flights in the UK

Old 19th Dec 2019, 08:40
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Secret RAF flights in the UK

Islanders snooping

Only 11 years since this was reported in the Daily Mail. It took another 3 years for the Daily Telegraph to report it :

Daily Telegraph

And only last year there were updates :

Evening Standard

Thank goodness that the Internet access in this country is not censored as it is in other countries and thank goodness for a free press where open and honest discussion isn't stifled by paranoia.

And now it seems that that American military have been deployed inside their own country to do something similar.

But we can't discuss it on a locked thread


Last edited by beardy; 19th Dec 2019 at 08:52.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 09:00
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It was locked because it went OT discussing the US consitution
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 09:15
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Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
It was locked because it went OT discussing the US consitution
Surveillance of a population by its own government (which is happening) is very much part of the topic. Whether that is permissable or desirable are legitimate points of discussion and have been debated by philosophers since before the framing of the Constitution of the USA.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 09:16
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If there are people in this country who want to do us harm, and the security services want to monitor them, fine by me. That's part of us being a free country. The other part is the freedom to make them accountable for their actions.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 09:23
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Originally Posted by Herod View Post
If there are people in this country who want to do us harm, and the security services want to monitor them, fine by me. That's part of us being a free country. The other part is the freedom to make them accountable for their actions.
I agree

Accountable to who? I know it's a bit of a trope, but who does watch the watchmen?
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 10:02
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The Intelligence and Security Committee does.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 10:25
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Living close to a sensitive location we do get the occasional islander flight weeks in advance of an event as a rule. These can surely only be of use in specifically defined situations and limited in their ability to collect and store data. Much more to worry about from interception storage and potential rearranging/photoshopping/voice altering your Whats app/Tinder/Gmail/Skype etc etc by the spooks rather than a few islanders poodling around on an import but very focussed specific job I would hava thought.

As for the free but extremely biased press they can be very selective about what and who they complain about but at least they do make a noise from time to time
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 10:38
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Originally Posted by beardy View Post
...thank goodness for a free press...
Good joke. See 'Gerry McCann is happy' on YouTube, taken right infront of the whole of the UK's 'free press'.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 10:45
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About 5 years ago an ex USMC officer who was lecturing (in a non-secret subject) at a major US Uni. told me they told their students to remember than ANYTHING you commit to writing on a PC/phone/Tablet can longer be considered secret or confidential - especially emails

Like it or not we live in a Surveillance Society - sometimes that's good and sometime's that's bad but it is what it is and there is no turning the clock back.

The only answer is to do what the SVR were apparently doing in Moscow - buying a lot of steam driven typewriters................. but then maybe they were on special..........
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 11:45
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
The only answer is to do what the SVR were apparently doing in Moscow - buying a lot of steam driven typewriters................. but then maybe they were on special..........
It was noticeable pre Glasnost that any Soviet aircraft we had in at Farnborough would get a 'visit' by a van labelled 'Currys' or 'Dixons' just prior to its departure and they would deliver dozens of anonymous cardboard boxes to the aircraft.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 12:03
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
It was noticeable pre Glasnost that any Soviet aircraft we had in at Farnborough would get a 'visit' by a van labelled 'Currys' or 'Dixons' just prior to its departure and they would deliver dozens of anonymous cardboard boxes to the aircraft.
Crew meals?
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 12:17
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Was the same at Ullapool back in the day when the Klondikers came in. A huge truck or two of all manner of consumer goods would be at the dock before the fleet departed.
 
Old 19th Dec 2019, 13:44
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See "local Hero" - but not just the Russians - I was checking out of a Hotel in Glasgow in the early 90's and a guy came into drop off a Land Rover Defender gearbox for an Icelandair passenger expected in that afternoon for a 4 day stay......................... Th Hotel staff didn't bat an eye-lid - apparently they had a shed round the back especially for Icelandic "deliveries"
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 14:15
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A government spokesman said: “We do not comment on matters of national security.”
Quite. What has been reported in the press is mere speculation. Those who know are those who need to know - no-one else.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 14:46
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Quite. What has been reported in the press is mere speculation. Those who know are those who need to know - no-one else.
Informed speculation, not 'mere'.

The bad guys are well aware of the capabilities of the snoopers, it's just the public who pay for it who are kept in the dark.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 15:56
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In the 70's, it was (very) old second hand cars that covered the decks of eastbound Russian coastal shipping.
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 16:13
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I believe in the '60's some Bulgarian ships were being refurbed on Tyneside and went home loaded with upright piano's..............
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 16:47
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https://www.itv.com/news/london/2014...e-phone-calls/
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 18:31
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The FBI has been doing this stuff in the U.S. for many years now.

June 2, 2015

FBI behind mysterious surveillance aircraft over US cities (Update)

byJack Gillum, Eileen Sullivan And Eric Tucker
In this photo taken May 26, 2015, a small plane flies near Manassas Regional Airport in Manassas, Va. The plane is among a fleet of surveillance aircraft by the FBI, which are primarily used to target suspects under federal investigation. Such planes are capable of taking video of the ground, and some—in rare occasions—can sweep up certain identifying cellphone data. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)

Scores of low-flying planes circling American cities are part of a civilian air force operated by the FBI and obscured behind fictitious companies, The Associated Press has learned.
The AP traced at least 50 aircraft back to the FBI, and identified more than 100 flights in 11 states over a 30-day period since late April, orbiting both major cities and rural areas. At least 115 planes, including 90 Cessna aircraft, were mentioned in a federal budget document from 2009.

For decades, the planes have provided support to FBI surveillance operations on the ground. But now the aircraft are equipped with high-tech cameras, and in rare circumstances, technology capable of tracking thousands of cellphones, raising questions about how these surveillance flights affect Americans' privacy.

"It's important that federal law enforcement personnel have the tools they need to find and catch criminals," said Charles Grassley, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "But whenever an operation may also monitor the activities of Americans who are not the intended target, we must make darn sure that safeguards are in place to protect the civil liberties of innocent Americans."

The FBI says the planes are not equipped or used for bulk collection activities or mass surveillance. The surveillance equipment is used for ongoing investigations, the FBI says, generally without a judge's approval.

The FBI confirmed for the first time the wide-scale use of the aircraft, which the AP traced to at least 13 fake companies, such as FVX Research, KQM Aviation, NBR Aviation and PXW Services.

"The FBI's aviation program is not secret," spokesman Christopher Allen said in a statement. "Specific aircraft and their capabilities are protected for operational security purposes."

The front companies are used to protect the safety of the pilots, the agency said. That setup also shields the identity of the aircraft so that suspects on the ground don't know they're being followed.

The FBI is not the only federal law enforcement agency to take such measures.

The Drug Enforcement Administration has its own planes, also registered to fake companies, according to a 2011 Justice Department inspector general report. At the time, the DEA had 92 aircraft in its fleet. And since 2007, the U.S. Marshals Service has operated an aerial surveillance program with its own fleet equipped with technology that can capture data from thousands of cellphones, the Wall Street Journal reported last year.

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Old 19th Dec 2019, 18:45
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
The FBI has been doing this stuff in the U.S. for many years now.
...and it's even shown in the film Casino, going back to the 70's when the film was set.
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