Opinion on Gieves
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I was at IOT in 1987. As a former University Cadet, I had received an outfitting allowance and had bought my hat (Moss Bros, I think). But the system changed, and the Direct Entrants were issued with hats (and, I think, uniforms) from clothing stores. One windy day, we were marching up and down when the CWO decided that we should were our chinstraps to prevent our hats from being blown off. It transpired that on the hats that were issued by stores the chinstraps were for show only and were non-functional. The result was a very unhappy CWO.
Over on the Brevet thread, our much-missed Senior Poster Danny 42C favoured the Bates cap for the 1958 season when he was posted to ATC Thorney Island, commuting on his Winged Wheel motorised pushbike. Told as only Danny could, his autobiography Danny and the Cold War recalls one sunny morning when all went well until the throttle stuck wide open:
Frantic waggling failed to clear it, so the Wheel now had the bit firmly between its teeth, and quickly got up to 25 mph, which was Vne (never exceed speed) … there was no ignition switch, and a downhill stretch lay ahead … eventually I managed to lean back and turn off the fuel, it took ages, my cap fell off (the least of my worries) but thankfully I managed it … I stripped the carb, put all back, test for Full and Free Movement, fuel 'on', fire-up and backtrack for my Cap, S.D. Against all expectation, Mr. Bates's finest was on the roadside half a mile astern, had not been pinched or run-over, and was generally in good nick.
Regret that I was never a Geives man - but my aged P was in WW2. Mainly because your bill was written off if you croaked and quite a few of his FAA mates did!
Off to watch the election,
Mog
Off to watch the election,
Mog
My first uniforms were from Moss Bros, which weren't too good and turned out to be a disaster while during Flying training at Cranwell, when was selected to be on the colour party; for which the original No1s were fine. However, for a Royal Review, we had to be especially smart - which I wasn't, having put on a few pounds in the meantime. So I was told to equip myself with a new uniform with the added comment that nothing other than Gieves would do. And while I was in London, get a new Bates hat as well! Not long after, Dad retired from the mob and I acquired his uniforms. Once I had reached his rank I had his Alkit uniforms re-tailored by Ernie Bedford in Newark who commented that they were all very well made.
My Moss Bros SD hat required a bent wire coat-hanger to give it the required droop at the edges - maybe the reason I had to buy a new one. My Bates had acquired the desired effect all on it's own and lasted for the rest of my non-illustrious career.
My Moss Bros SD hat required a bent wire coat-hanger to give it the required droop at the edges - maybe the reason I had to buy a new one. My Bates had acquired the desired effect all on it's own and lasted for the rest of my non-illustrious career.
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 13th Dec 2019 at 15:42.
I had to smile when being fitted for my Poulson and Scone OP Shoes when a Junior Cadet at the Towers in '68.
"These will be made especially for you ,Sir"
So I put my right foot on the pedestal to have it drawn around on crayon to a backing paper , on to which my details were duly annotated ..
"Your shoes will now be made by our craftsmen to your personal specification, Sir "
In due course they arrived ,
Stamped on the sole.
"Size 10 "
"These will be made especially for you ,Sir"
So I put my right foot on the pedestal to have it drawn around on crayon to a backing paper , on to which my details were duly annotated ..
"Your shoes will now be made by our craftsmen to your personal specification, Sir "
In due course they arrived ,
Stamped on the sole.
"Size 10 "
I am pleased to report that Gieves still do customer service pretty well. On a very hot day last summer I had been up very early traipsing around London looking for a particular item of clothing and by mid afternoon had become pretty “hot and bothered”: In desperation I ended up at No 1 Saville Row. As I walked in the immaculate salesman looked me up and down and said “would sir like a drink”
Last edited by Timelord; 13th Dec 2019 at 11:34.
As a flight cadet at Cranwell in the late 60s, when we still did 2.5 years there, the provision of No 1 uniforms was quite a palaver. On arrival, we were measured up for a No 1 made (ISTR) by RE City, together with a particularly horrible college blazer with badge. A small payment (about £25 - but remember, that was about a month's pay) was made to us to buy a hat, gloves and shoes, which I think came from Gieves, who had a shop on camp. During the next year, but encouraged to do so as soon as possible, we had to buy a second No1 and hat plus mess kit from Gieves, who had the contract. The money for this (£100) was not payable to the cadet until mid-second year, but Mr Gieves accepted this and let us have the kit up front, knowing that we would cough-up the £100 when it was paid. Sadly (for Mr Gieves), the money was paid a week before the 99 Entry trip to Colorado Springs, and the temptation of an exchange rate of $2.40 = £1 was too much for many of us. Mr Gieves was not a happy cat, and demanded interviews with the Commandant ref the enormous debt he held. On graduation, another £100 was paid with which to buy a third No 1, which was obviously OTT, a greatcoat, another pair of shoes and a cabin trunk. All this went by the wayside in order to pay Gieves for the second No1 and mess kit, so a cheap barathea battledress and a £10 greatcoat from Ernie Bedford in Newark had to suffice.
The USAF Academy trip was great - with no expenses spared!
The USAF Academy trip was great - with no expenses spared!
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With reference to Timelord's post, the service at Gieves was always excellent. In the mid-seventies I was based in London and used to pop in to 1 Saville Row occasionally for bits of uniform. In those days I was generally dressed in a tie and jacket. I used to be greeted at the front door and left on my own to walk upstairs to the military section where the staff couldn't have been more helpful. However I had taken to commute on a motorbike and on one occasion I made the mistake of having the temerity to go in wearing bike leathers and carrying a crash helmet. I was intercepted at the front door and was met with a very curt "Can I help you sir", with a great deal of sarcasm on the "sir". "That's alright", I replied, "I'm just going to the military department". I started to go upstairs as usual but the doorman insisted on going with me. Once I reached the department I was reduced to showing my ID card to identify myself as a bona fide officer. At which point everything changed and the staff become so helpful it could only be described as obsequious. I felt like advising them that they shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but I refrained from doing so and just smiled inside at the similarity to "Are you being served".
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Old Bricks: .:Re college blazers,,,,,: All you have to do is carefully unpick the cloth badge;, to make a silk purse of it, remove the brass greatcoat buttons and replace with mess dress buttons ie,gilded and with wings mounted,not stamped. Mine is admired even today,perhaps more so when I say it was a gift of
H.M.The King at Christmas 1952. (It hangs beautifully;pity I can't fasten the buttons.
H.M.The King at Christmas 1952. (It hangs beautifully;pity I can't fasten the buttons.
Jack
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OT again, but Messrs Moss in Covent Garden was tasked to provide me with new Mess overalls, following a particularly blurred Guest Night.
Me: “14 inch hems, please.”
He: “Sir, that woukd only work if wearing Mess boots.”
Me: “I do.”
They were very nice, but sadly shrank in the wordrobe as so many of these things do in later years.
The full-length boots from Singapore in the late 60s still fit perfectly, though.
Me: “14 inch hems, please.”
He: “Sir, that woukd only work if wearing Mess boots.”
Me: “I do.”
They were very nice, but sadly shrank in the wordrobe as so many of these things do in later years.
The full-length boots from Singapore in the late 60s still fit perfectly, though.
I arrived at Cerney in ‘61 as a very young 17 year old. When we moved to (was it) 2 Mess ? this old hand (aged c 21) told me that the desks in the rooms had been designed so that one of compartments on the right hand side of the desk could be used to bash your hat. On one of the inspections one of the Flight Commanders saw my Bates hat in there being bashed and awarded me three day’s ‘restrictions’!
Were not RE City and Gieves one and the same? I have a Gieves Greatcoat I bought second hand in Plymouth when RAF Mount Wise closed down. It had had a red silk lining, but it had been roughly removed. I had that reinstated on a foreign tour where the tailors were affordable. I also picked up an RE City No 3 Mess Kit (probably owned by the same chap who sold the greatcoat) - it still fits well but it is heavily quilted, no doubt from the days when Messes did not have central heating. If worn with a waistcoat, it can be uncomfortably warm. But I wont be wearing either items again. I'm holding on to the greatcoat and mess kit for sentimental reasons.
Avoid imitations
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But I wont be wearing either items again. I'm holding on to the greatcoat and mess kit for sentimental reasons.
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With reference to Timelord's post, the service at Gieves was always excellent. In the mid-seventies I was based in London and used to pop in to 1 Saville Row occasionally for bits of uniform. In those days I was generally dressed in a tie and jacket. I used to be greeted at the front door and left on my own to walk upstairs to the military section where the staff couldn't have been more helpful. However I had taken to commute on a motorbike and on one occasion I made the mistake of having the temerity to go in wearing bike leathers and carrying a crash helmet. I was intercepted at the front door and was met with a very curt "Can I help you sir", with a great deal of sarcasm on the "sir". "That's alright", I replied, "I'm just going to the military department". I started to go upstairs as usual but the doorman insisted on going with me. Once I reached the department I was reduced to showing my ID card to identify myself as a bona fide officer. At which point everything changed and the staff become so helpful it could only be described as obsequious. I felt like advising them that they shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but I refrained from doing so and just smiled inside at the similarity to "Are you being served".
Avoid imitations
No chance of me getting speeding fines put onto my Matalan bill....
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Were not RE City and Gieves one and the same? I have a Gieves Greatcoat I bought second hand in Plymouth when RAF Mount Wise closed down. It had had a red silk lining, but it had been roughly removed. I had that reinstated on a foreign tour where the tailors were affordable. I also picked up an RE City No 3 Mess Kit (probably owned by the same chap who sold the greatcoat) - it still fits well but it is heavily quilted, no doubt from the days when Messes did not have central heating. If worn with a waistcoat, it can be uncomfortably warm. But I wont be wearing either items again. I'm holding on to the greatcoat and mess kit for sentimental reasons.
I am informed that I am a Veteran and at a meeting of veterans at an airbase in Anglesey recently, I met the new Padre sporting a new SD hat. The top was so large and flat that you could have played a game of cricket on it. When I inquired of its parentage, I was told it was issued from stores. No doubt they are made under contract in Albania or somewhere.
Last edited by alamo; 14th Dec 2019 at 17:26.
If I might be allowed a bit of thread drift, here is a great SD hat story. Aden 1966. Station Commander had a very strange habit of inspecting some officers' rooms in the Mess on a Saturday morning (your room is your castle?) complete with PMC and SWO man. One of my mates (who was a professional extrovert) gets back from a trip on Saturday evening and finds a note that he is to report to Station Commander at 0900 on Monday morning.
He gets back to his room and finds that his "operational" SD hat (covered in hydraulic oil with a green badge) is missing. The grapevine tells him that the Stn Cdr has visited his room in his absence, found said hat and told the SWO man to take it away and burn it.
Monday morning dawns and it went like this; friend arrives in his very best uniform at 0900 and is put in front of the great man who is saluted very smartly and before he can even open his mouth:
"Good morning Sir. I am really glad that you sent for me this morning for I was going to have to come to see you anyway on a matter of some urgency."
"Really" says puzzled Stn Cdr.
"It seems that for some reason or other that you saw fit to visit my room in my absence on Saturday and my father's hat is missing. Can I have it back please?"
"Yours father's hat?"
"Yes Sir. He was shot down during the Battle of Britain in his Hurricane and was killed. They found his SD hat in the crater and my mother gave it to me for safe keeping. Can I have it back please?"
Of course, said SD hat had been burned by the SWO man so any possible evidence had gone. Friend suggested that an abject apology in writing to mother would be in order.
That wasn't entirely the end of the vendetta and great amusement was yet to come. Sorry for the thread drift.
He gets back to his room and finds that his "operational" SD hat (covered in hydraulic oil with a green badge) is missing. The grapevine tells him that the Stn Cdr has visited his room in his absence, found said hat and told the SWO man to take it away and burn it.
Monday morning dawns and it went like this; friend arrives in his very best uniform at 0900 and is put in front of the great man who is saluted very smartly and before he can even open his mouth:
"Good morning Sir. I am really glad that you sent for me this morning for I was going to have to come to see you anyway on a matter of some urgency."
"Really" says puzzled Stn Cdr.
"It seems that for some reason or other that you saw fit to visit my room in my absence on Saturday and my father's hat is missing. Can I have it back please?"
"Yours father's hat?"
"Yes Sir. He was shot down during the Battle of Britain in his Hurricane and was killed. They found his SD hat in the crater and my mother gave it to me for safe keeping. Can I have it back please?"
Of course, said SD hat had been burned by the SWO man so any possible evidence had gone. Friend suggested that an abject apology in writing to mother would be in order.
That wasn't entirely the end of the vendetta and great amusement was yet to come. Sorry for the thread drift.