UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

[Mil-26Man]

Originally Posted by chinook240

But it doesn’t say when? It does say the new medium lift helicopter will replace 4 obsolete types, but if we’re keeping Mildcat and Merlin, what does it replace apart from Puma?

Bell 212, 412 and Gazelle I believe. My understanding of the Puma announcement is that it remains until 2025 (that's the previously stated position, and there is nothing in this document that changes that). Whether there will be an off the shelf interim replacement until something is developed (as the document seems to suggest will happen), I'm not sure.

[pr00ne]

The paper is pretty clear on the new Medium Lift Helicopter, it will replace the 4 obsolete types APART from Merlin and Chinook, so I read that as Puma, Gazelle and Army Wildcat, not sure what the 4th type could be, Dauphin? Therefore Benson sounds safe.

No mention of the Islander/Defender fleet though?

Nor of the replacement types for the BAe 146.

[pr00ne]

Thanks MIl-26Man!

Bell 212 is the 4th type.
Not sure about Bell 412, wasn't there a tender out for a civilian contract service to replace 84 Sqn?

[Willard Whyte]

Medium lift to replace the Gazelle? Seems a bit 'overkill'.

[Navaleye]

Did anyone spot the Type 83 Destroyer? New air defence capability

[pr00ne]

Willard Whyte,

Certainly does, but the paper was very definite about replacing 4 types with 1.

Also no mention of how the Red Arrows are going to continue, the paper was firm about retiring Hawk T1 by 2025, but they are shown as being there through the 2030's. Surely if there was going to be another Hawk T2 order they would have been trumpeting that from the roof tops?

[ORAC]

The paper is pretty clear on the new Medium Lift Helicopter, it will replace the 4 obsolete types APART from Merlin and Chinook, so I read that as Puma, Gazelle and Army Wildcat

If you look at the types being retained/purchased on their snazzy graphic, they are the following. Nothing else.

Chinook, Merlin, new MLH, Wildcat and Apache.

The Chinook presumably will remain RAF manned, the Merlin RN and the Wildcat and Apache army.

So I suppose that means a fight over MLH?

[SLXOwft]

I assume RAFEngO74to09 heard 22 A400M during the SoS announcement. I thought the UK order was 22, anyway, with the 21st ZM420 in store and ZM421 test flying for Airbus as EC-400 since FEB2018.

Regarding medium lift helicopters are we not forgetting 84 Sqn's Griffins (Bell 412)?

[pr00ne]

Navaleye,

Yep saw that. Not exactly a new capability though, it was very clear that it is a Type 45 replacement.

[pr00ne]

SLX0wft,

Pretty sure there was a tender out for a Civilian Owned Civilian Operated contract to replace 84 Sqn capability.

[pr00ne]

ORAC,

The way I read it was the Army having Apache and the new Medium Lift Helicopter, the RN having Merlin and Wildcat, and the RAF having Chinook and the new Medium Lift Helicopter.

[SLXOwft]

According to National Statistics' UK armed forces equipment and formations 2020 the UK armed forces RW fleet in active fleet management, which can include aircraft in storage (to preserve airframe hours). Consisted of:
Apache - 40
AW109SP - 1
Bell 212 - 5
Chinook - 41
Dauphin2,3 - 2
Gazelle - 18
Griffin - 3
Juno *
Jupiter *
Merlin HM2 - 19
Merlin HCx - 21
Puma - 18
Wildcat AH Mk1 25
Wildcat HMA Mk2 21
* In service figures are not applicable for these aircraft which operate under availability contracts.

Originally Posted by pr00ne

SLX0wft,

Pretty sure there was a tender out for a Civilian Owned Civilian Operated contract to replace 84 Sqn capability.

I had a recollection of that but 84 were still active last summer - I understood the aircraft are owned and maintained by Cobham but RAF flown.

[pr00ne]

Er,

That didn't quite work...

[SLXOwft]

Pr00ne, I tried copying from Excel - should have know it wouldn't work.

[chinook240]

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj

In response to a question, SOS just clarified that F35 purchase will not stop at 48 and that procurement will continue beyond that number.I thought Puma might go, but no mention of it.

That’s not actually what he said during his speech regarding the F-35 buy. He said the UK would commit to buying 48 F-35.....which is the minimum buy anyway.

[andrewn]

I've a feeling this is one of those (many) Defence reviews that wont age well at all. In years gone by you could get away with capability cuts today on the basis of false promises of jam tomorrow, but we're in a situation nowadays where every capability cut is real and is going to hurt.

Scrap C130 and putting all our Tac/SF airlift in the A400M basket. Nobody else think that is a good idea so why do we?
"Growing" the FJ force but cutting 25 Typhoon's. Someones telling porkies here. Typhoon is pretty much all we've got for the next few years, making cuts now just makes us look a laughing stock.
Retiring E-3, taking a capability holiday and a reduced buy of 3 E-7 ? We ordered 5 what seems like only yesterday.... Love to know how they're gonna provide a 24/7 air picture for "Global Britain" ?
As for the F-35 follow-on buy, there's nothing there that commits us beyond 48. I'll be amazed if we end up with more than another dozen.
Culling the Hawk T1. cheap and versatile, gives people seat time when they wouldn't otherwise get it. Another desperate dan act
And as for increased synthetic training and future Tempest (it's nothing more than a R&D project) I just despair...

[Mil-26Man]

Really don't want to bring up the B word, but with £200 billion spent on Brexit and counting what did folks expect other than cuts, cuts and more cuts? That's before you even begin to factor in Covid.

There really will be no jam tomorrow for a very long time, if at all.

[pr00ne]

Foghorn Leghorn,

But in questions afterwards he was clear that we WILL buy more than 48, and the Command paper is equally clear.

[pr00ne]

Mil-26Man,

But this is NOT a case of cuts as in finance, they are spending an extra £24 billion over 4 years AND sticking to the 2% of GDP AND the extra over and above to cover inflation.