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UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

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UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

Old 27th Feb 2021, 07:29
  #561 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JonnyT1978 View Post
Yup, the Herc fleet is going along with the Ton.
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Old 27th Feb 2021, 08:25
  #562 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn View Post
Nope, thereís zero funding going into the Ton. Iíll give you, what may potentially happen is they will retire the Hawk T1s the Ton use and then stand the Sqn back up with the Hawk T2s to support the Qatari Hawk sqn in the UK.
Concur, beyond safety critical and legislative requirements going onto T1 to sustain RAFAT there is no investment going into this sunset capability. Even on its planned vector, 100 Sqn would add little value once you get to 2025 given the number of viable airframes (hours/landings). There's a very good reason that the ASSC and recent Duty Holderís Safety Statements are not being released too. Also, if 100 sqn are to pick up maritime tasking then depending on CONOPS there will be anywhere from say 260-700hrs+ a year in transits!
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Old 27th Feb 2021, 09:28
  #563 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn View Post
Yup, the Herc fleet is going along with the Ton.
Unbelievable really when you consider the centre wing box (life extension) replacement programme is well underway, and the first airframe is done and back in service since August 2020
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Old 27th Feb 2021, 11:47
  #564 (permalink)  
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Unbelievable really when you consider the centre wing box (life extension) replacement programme is well underway, and the first airframe is done and back in service since August 2020
The aircraft fleet equivalent of resurfacing the runway before closing an airfield no doubt.....
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Old 27th Feb 2021, 13:00
  #565 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The aircraft fleet equivalent of resurfacing the runway before closing an airfield no doubt.....
At least some of the investment can be recouped in an improved sale price for the aircraft.
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Old 27th Feb 2021, 17:01
  #566 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately the writing was on the wall for the C130 and its only operational Sqn due to poor leadership and woeful decision making by certain individuals in more recent years. But nothing lasts forever and those individuals have moved to other pastures.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 07:18
  #567 (permalink)  
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The Times:

Boris Johnson is planning to “tilt” Britain towards the Indo-Pacific region, a strategy to be set out on March 16 in an integrated review of defence, security and foreign policy. The following week there will be a defence command paper including Ministry of Defence plans to modernise the military.

No 10 said yesterday that General Sir Nick Carter, would stay on as chief of the defence staff until the end of November to oversee the “modernisation” of the armed forces and the strategy.....


https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...litary-review/

Last edited by ORAC; 6th Mar 2021 at 08:02.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 07:52
  #568 (permalink)  
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Its expensive keeping kit several thousand miles away from home - I wonder what level of forces they'll be able to actually deploy full-time?
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 15:14
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Do you think Sir Nick will get a 1% pay rise?
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 18:14
  #570 (permalink)  
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Well I can't see a vast amount of extra cash coming the Armed Forces way if that's what you mean
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 09:59
  #571 (permalink)  
 
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It looks like the Sunday Times has, ahem, 'obtained' a copy of the review outcome. It makes tough reading for the RAF. I don't have a subscription so am summarising from a paper copy:

- 11 crewed ISTAR platforms to go... Islander and Sentinel both retired
- Royal Flight 146s to be replaced with (unnamed) leased aircraft
- C130J to go
- E7 numbers cut from 5 to 3, with a 2-3 year gap between it and E3
- 24 'older' Typhoons (presumably the Tranche 1s) retired early
- 45 transport helicopters ('41% of the fleet') to go
- No more F35s *at all*
- Investment in Tempest

For me, whether this is a total disaster for the RAF depends entirely on the scale of that Tempest investment and how it is intended to equip the carriers post-F35. If it is a decent sum that sets the programme up for success with or without international partners, and an assumption is being made that UCAVs will come on quickly enough to replace F35 on QEC, then the RAF should probably be happy (the reduction in E7 numbers is madness but at least more could be added later). However if the Tempest investment is a token one, perhaps leading to a need to waste money on Typhoon life extension, and *especially* if the RAF is directed to deliver a marinised Tempest to replace the F35s, then this could be an unmitigated disaster of 2010 proportions (and then some). The chances of the mainstream press scrutinizing the settlement to that level of detail before the public returns its focus to COVID are, erm, slim to none.

(Edited to include the helicopter numbers)

Last edited by Easy Street; 7th Mar 2021 at 12:24.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 10:25
  #572 (permalink)  
 
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Click the link for the full Sunday Times article referred to by Easy Street.
£9m Boris bunker at the heart of an army fit for the future


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Old 7th Mar 2021, 11:37
  #573 (permalink)  
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An extract from the above - not mentioned above is the cut in the helicopter force - does that equate to the entire Benson Puma fleet?

Drones for jets

An order for 90 more F-35 Lightning combat jets is to be cancelled in favour of the Tempest fighter, built in Lancashire, while 24 older Typhoon fighters will be retired early. Whole fleets of aircraft will be taken out of service as drones become ever more common.

The RAF will lose 11 manned spy planes, a 45 per cent cut, with the Sentinel and Islander aircraft not being replaced after their retirement this year. There will also be a gap in coverage from E-3D Sentry airborne early-warning radar planes for two to three years, while replacement Wedgetails will be cut from five to three. Also to be scrapped are 14 C-130J Hercules transport planes used by the SAS.

BAE-146 passenger jets from 32 (Royal) Squadron, used by the Queen, Prince Charles and the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, will be replaced by leased aircraft. The transport helicopter fleet will be cut by 45 helicopters or 41%.”.....
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 11:48
  #574 (permalink)  
 
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So will the E3 be scrapped early with E7 arriving as planned, or will E3 soldier on and the E7 be delayed? Or is there no change to the current plan?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 16:48
  #575 (permalink)  
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they also say the RN will get new frigates T32, Solid Supply vessels and underwater surveillance vessels. A third of the surface destroyer and frigate fleet will be retired along with half the SSN's before replacements arrive. Reckon that Radakin isn't flavour of the month as CDS and it will be Sanders from teh Army.

Army to be reduced by 10,000 by 2024 and to another 2500 to go by 2030 - target size 70,000 men. 2 out of 4 armoured brigades to be cut and 23 battalions to be shrunk/cut. Cancel Warrior upgrade

Looks like a lot of jam tomorrow stuff - you have to believe that the money for the replacement kit will come at some future time (cough, cough, cough...)
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:19
  #576 (permalink)  
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Rereading the article it seems we're really cancelling the F-35's to pour money into BAe ( a "red-wall" company of course) - it's hard to believe that the Tempest will be ready in less than 10 years and then God knows what the cost per unit will be - and we may have had several changes of Govt by then so its long term prospects aren't brilliant. The RAF wil soldier on with Typhoon upgrades and perhaps the occasional small buy - again good for BAE but its a major cut in planned forces for sure
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:28
  #577 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely Asturias, the usual capability slash in order to throw (more) money at the EP, with as you say a miniscule chance of that "investment" translating into anything real. Surprised how often the chiefs fall for this one to be honest 🤔
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:34
  #578 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
An extract from the above - not mentioned above is the cut in the helicopter force - does that equate to the entire Benson Puma fleet?
more like the whole of Benson, i.e. the 24 Pumas plus 20 Chinooks....
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:02
  #579 (permalink)  
 
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…..or the whole Puma fleet plus CHF…..
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:56
  #580 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Rereading the article it seems we're really cancelling the F-35's to pour money into BAe ( a "red-wall" company of course) - it's hard to believe that the Tempest will be ready in less than 10 years .....
Asturias56, your questions are quite appropriate ..... and just to add that, no-one seems to have commented on the fact that such investment will also help BAe in the TF-X programme which will then spin technology back into Tempest....... Just a thought (or pipe-dream?) ........

Bottom line re the "cunning Tempest Plan" is "we will see"!
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