'Non-Traditional' Aircrew
Oh, Wazza Loadie, d'you need a saucer of milk? Are you talking when MAMS were MAMS, or after everyone joined in? In my day, some 38 years ago, it was Union Flag on shoulder and name and UKMAMS on front name patch
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: DAVER
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sharpie
The Air Steward and the later Cabin Crew badge is nothing like RAF Pilot Flying Badges - a LOT smaller, the wings are a different shape, it has the monogram ‘AS’ or ‘CC’ and they are worn on the sleeve (or they should be). It is only weak leadership on the shiney 10 (ie. your old fleet), Tristar, 125, 146 and now Voyager that has allowed them to, outside of the AP1358 Dress Regs, wear them on their left breast of their FACS, flying suits or cold weather jackets. It is a Trade badge and should be worn on the right sleeve like the picture that Nutty kindly shared.
The Air Steward and the later Cabin Crew badge is nothing like RAF Pilot Flying Badges - a LOT smaller, the wings are a different shape, it has the monogram ‘AS’ or ‘CC’ and they are worn on the sleeve (or they should be). It is only weak leadership on the shiney 10 (ie. your old fleet), Tristar, 125, 146 and now Voyager that has allowed them to, outside of the AP1358 Dress Regs, wear them on their left breast of their FACS, flying suits or cold weather jackets. It is a Trade badge and should be worn on the right sleeve like the picture that Nutty kindly shared.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,035
Received 1,393 Likes
on
624 Posts
Wings on a hostie is like lipstick on a pig.. it is what it is, no matter how they dress it up.
Still, it must be a good moral booster for service retention and induction, a bit like allowing pilots to buy a leather jacket and wear it.
Still, it must be a good moral booster for service retention and induction, a bit like allowing pilots to buy a leather jacket and wear it.
One of my hobbies is military history, British Army, Victorian to Great War period, and specialising in dress/clothing and the badges attached.
One theme recurs: the regulations often follow practice, rather than the converse.
I prefer the rules to be obeyed in our armed services, but if there is sufficiently good [or bad] reason to diverge from them, perhaps the regs might change.
Not that I have a dog in the fight as a retired weather guesser.
One theme recurs: the regulations often follow practice, rather than the converse.
I prefer the rules to be obeyed in our armed services, but if there is sufficiently good [or bad] reason to diverge from them, perhaps the regs might change.
Not that I have a dog in the fight as a retired weather guesser.
]the badges, not the veterans].
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
”Hostie”, “Air Hostess”, “Stewardess” etc are inappropriate terms that carry the implication that such personnel are onboard mainly for the delivery of “hospitality”.
The reality is contrary to this misconception. The primary duties of Cabin Crew are safety-critical and they deserve to be respected for their role. Just off the top of my head I can think of the following competencies:
Immediate Care (First Aid)
Abnormal and Emergency procedures, including -
CRM
Human Performance
SMS
Fatigue Management
Survival and Rescue (Land and Sea)
Arguably, Cabin Crew are more directly involved in the operation of aircraft than some of the other trades. Perhaps Cabin Crew ought to be brought into the scope of this review and be awarded an equivalent ‘proper’ brevet?
The reality is contrary to this misconception. The primary duties of Cabin Crew are safety-critical and they deserve to be respected for their role. Just off the top of my head I can think of the following competencies:
Immediate Care (First Aid)
Abnormal and Emergency procedures, including -
- Firefighting onboard aircraft
- Ditching / Forced Landing
- Emergency Evacuation
- Decompression
- Operation of all Emergency Equipment
- Pilot incapacitation
CRM
Human Performance
SMS
Fatigue Management
Survival and Rescue (Land and Sea)
Arguably, Cabin Crew are more directly involved in the operation of aircraft than some of the other trades. Perhaps Cabin Crew ought to be brought into the scope of this review and be awarded an equivalent ‘proper’ brevet?
The VC10K didn't originally carry 'passengers', they were referred to as 'role support personnel'. We didn't have established ALMs or 'cabin crew' to look after them but would take it in turns to do so - as it usually meant a trip to somewhere nice.
When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable
) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!
RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.
When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable
) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Oct 2019 at 22:14.
An explanation of how the term 'trolley tart' originated, immediately followed by a statement of 'RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming' is a strange juxtaposition, but I guess its all contextualised by a history lesson.
Tell me, who loaded the catering? was it coolies, or chai walla's? or did it depend on which pink part of the map you were sipping G&T's in?
Tell me, who loaded the catering? was it coolies, or chai walla's? or did it depend on which pink part of the map you were sipping G&T's in?
The VC10K didn't originally carry 'passengers', they were referred to as 'role support personnel'. We didn't have established ALMs or 'cabin crew' to look after them but would take it in turns to do so - as it usually meant a trip to somewhere nice.
When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!
RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.
When acting as 'cabin supervisor', the nickname for such a task was 'Trolley Tart'. That came from (rather a memorable
) time with a ba TriStar crew in Bermuda, one of whom (a very classy young lady) told us that her parents used to hold quite a few posh cockers Ps at which her father would introduce her to his guests as "My daughter the Trolley Tart". She didn't mind at all!RAF Cabin Crew do indeed deserve more respect than is often forthcoming. Their tasks and responsibilities extend far beyond handing out those delightful white boxes.
At Brize, VC10K catering was delivered to the aircraft by 'In-flight' and checked by the Cabin Supervisor. Quite often away from base the in-flight rations were bought in a local supermarket, then loaded by the Cabin Supervisor - who would also do the cooking. Most of us took turns in doing so.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,035
Received 1,393 Likes
on
624 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as we are well into a digression, why is the wagon always between me and the khazi when I need relief, and the dragons keep me waiting, standing like a twerp, until we hit turbulence and then its "seat belts on"?
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: middle earth
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NOT a Flying Badge
BEagle
I would agree if the Cabin Crew wings were worn in the correct place - ie. on the right hand sleeve. The left chest/breast is reserved for RAF Flying Badges and Medals - that is all. The Cabin Crew badge is not a de facto Flying Badge (ie. it is not listed in QR 206) and so should not be worn on the left breast/chest. It’s a pretty simple rule, really.
I would agree if the Cabin Crew wings were worn in the correct place - ie. on the right hand sleeve. The left chest/breast is reserved for RAF Flying Badges and Medals - that is all. The Cabin Crew badge is not a de facto Flying Badge (ie. it is not listed in QR 206) and so should not be worn on the left breast/chest. It’s a pretty simple rule, really.
Agreed LimaJuliet,
Its not a Flying Badge IAW AP1358 therefore CANNOT be worn on left breast. A name badge, fine- with CC "trade qualification badge" ( as per AP1358) on right arm. In addition QR206 doesn't recognise it as a Flying Badge either.
It's a clever flout of the dress regulations in the name of "crew cohesion" - clever play by CC branch to make people believe they have been awarded a Flying badge.
In addition- pretty sure RLC Dispatchers wear their Dispatchers badge on right arm..
Not sure what's next, the trade "Create" a Flying Badge with "CC" in middle? no worres- go to Cranwell and complete a CFS approved course of flying training then. Othersie move it to the right arm of FACS where there's a velcro portion already there for it.
