Rebranching before phase two training (RAF Officer)
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: England
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a holdee in our HQ that starts EFT this month - he finished IOT almost 2 years ago to the day. There are students on IOT at the moment who have been told to expect around 12 months from graduating. People starting IOT early next year are expected to have holds of around 6 months when they finish IOT. I’d call your ‘guy’ a fibber if I was you - there is even an app on Defence Connect that allows any student to check their EFT date if they input their Service Number. Also, there are no less than 3x full-time staff looking after the pipeline in HQ Directorate of Flying Training that can give your ‘guy’ his expected start dates any time (although he should have started if he finished IOT 2 years ago!) - sorry, I don’t believe you/him.
Which ‘AVM’ told you that? There are many AVMs in the RAF that know nothing on this subject. You need to go to a source who actually knows real facts rather than some scuttlebutt at a cocktail party.
Which ‘AVM’ told you that? There are many AVMs in the RAF that know nothing on this subject. You need to go to a source who actually knows real facts rather than some scuttlebutt at a cocktail party.
The "AVM" in question.. I would have thought that an appropriate acronym for "Air Vice Marshall" as that it his rank who I won't name on a forum for obvious reasons). I saw him fit to give the advice being the head of a large frontline group in the RAF, and someone I thought knowledgeable about how aircrew can move around both historically and into the future as he's seen it.
Considering your experience with HQ/Aircrew/career progression etc, how likely is it (in your opinion) a pilot on RPAS could move into instructor position much later in their career? Again, I've seen ME pilots move to BFJT on Tucano as instructors...
Flopgun
There is only one ‘L’ in Air Vice-Marshal (and it’s hyphenated).
The Texan will have no RW/ME pilots on it - it is now a FJ only aircraft. So that pathway is now effectively closed. To be brutally honest, as a single-seat FJ fleet now, then it is only really now for youngsters to join it, build the capacity, speed of learning, speed of reaction and ability to build muscle memory. In the past a good WSO or Nav could assist the slower learner in a 2 seat FJ, but the Typhoon and F35 are in a different league to anything we’ve had before. I’ve seen previously qualified Typhoon mates go back to the jet and struggle. It’s also punishing on the body now it’s a 9g game and so unless you have grown up with it, or transitioned to it, then it isn’t for those new to it in their late 30s or early 40s.
The plan is, and always has been, to allow some Pilot (ISR) RPAS to cross-over to the multi-engine ISTAR types. There may be an option to re-role to Air Mobility, but the goal is to retain ISTAR experience and retain the knowledge. No plans whatsoever to cross over to the RW or FJ streams. The first cross-overs are expected to be announced next year - with up to 2 per year from now on (depending on pipeline capacity and the needs of the various forces).
There is only one ‘L’ in Air Vice-Marshal (and it’s hyphenated).
The Texan will have no RW/ME pilots on it - it is now a FJ only aircraft. So that pathway is now effectively closed. To be brutally honest, as a single-seat FJ fleet now, then it is only really now for youngsters to join it, build the capacity, speed of learning, speed of reaction and ability to build muscle memory. In the past a good WSO or Nav could assist the slower learner in a 2 seat FJ, but the Typhoon and F35 are in a different league to anything we’ve had before. I’ve seen previously qualified Typhoon mates go back to the jet and struggle. It’s also punishing on the body now it’s a 9g game and so unless you have grown up with it, or transitioned to it, then it isn’t for those new to it in their late 30s or early 40s.
The plan is, and always has been, to allow some Pilot (ISR) RPAS to cross-over to the multi-engine ISTAR types. There may be an option to re-role to Air Mobility, but the goal is to retain ISTAR experience and retain the knowledge. No plans whatsoever to cross over to the RW or FJ streams. The first cross-overs are expected to be announced next year - with up to 2 per year from now on (depending on pipeline capacity and the needs of the various forces).
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: England
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I knew it was hyphenated, still got the point across hopefully.
I personally don't have a great desire to pursue a FJ or RW route, I was just giving what information I have to the OP.
I have other routes I hope to pursue. But they do fall largely into instructor roles but its never something Ive been able to get a great amount of information on. I'll likely create another post on here about how to reach that as it's not for here! But thank you for the information LJ.
I personally don't have a great desire to pursue a FJ or RW route, I was just giving what information I have to the OP.
I have other routes I hope to pursue. But they do fall largely into instructor roles but its never something Ive been able to get a great amount of information on. I'll likely create another post on here about how to reach that as it's not for here! But thank you for the information LJ.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: England
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...and here is the problem with pprune...guy asks genuine question to make an informed decision that could affect the rest of his life. Question gets answered by someone claiming to have knowledge whose actual experience is "just signed on the dotted line to become a pilot' (taken from his other thread). In other words, question being answered either by an air cadet or university graduate who incidentally has another thread asking how promotion to Sqn boss works and how he can become a QFI/QWI. I appreciate he might be well meaning, but I hope the OP is taking most of the advice from Flopgun with a pinch of salt.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: England
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not up to speed on current happenings but, as an erstwhile Wing Commander Cadets at DIOT, I can add that the system allows cadets at Cranwell to submit a branch change application whilst still undertaking IOT. I had many cadets seek them during my tenure, mostly those trying to avoid Boulmer because the chop rate was so high! The way the system worked when I was there was thus:
Cadet submits application in good faith; cadet gains interview with sqn cdr who provides current policy statement; cadet accepts that and gives up or cadet insists he/she wants to continue; cadet gains interview with Wg Cdr who explains policy again, but cannot stop the cadet pushing for his branch change at that point; application submitted; application rejected cadet remains in allocated branch or application accepted (normally only if there are extenuating circumstances) and cadet goes to the bar with a smile on his face.
The bottom line is, however, that appointments to branches are allocated based on quotas (requirements) per annum. If you apply for a branch change in the same year that the quotas are already filled then you are on a hiding to nothing. Consequently, the best time to seek a branch change is, if you're lucky to be at Cranwell, when the quotas for the following FY are being established. If not, if there are no extenuating circumstances (eg medical that existed when you attended OASC, but has cleared up - and you can prove it) you will be out of luck.
Otherwise everything that has been said before by people who are closer to the coal face than me now, will undoubtedly also hold sway.
Bloggs
Cadet submits application in good faith; cadet gains interview with sqn cdr who provides current policy statement; cadet accepts that and gives up or cadet insists he/she wants to continue; cadet gains interview with Wg Cdr who explains policy again, but cannot stop the cadet pushing for his branch change at that point; application submitted; application rejected cadet remains in allocated branch or application accepted (normally only if there are extenuating circumstances) and cadet goes to the bar with a smile on his face.
The bottom line is, however, that appointments to branches are allocated based on quotas (requirements) per annum. If you apply for a branch change in the same year that the quotas are already filled then you are on a hiding to nothing. Consequently, the best time to seek a branch change is, if you're lucky to be at Cranwell, when the quotas for the following FY are being established. If not, if there are no extenuating circumstances (eg medical that existed when you attended OASC, but has cleared up - and you can prove it) you will be out of luck.
Otherwise everything that has been said before by people who are closer to the coal face than me now, will undoubtedly also hold sway.
Bloggs
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being a mere mortal here..... Just going back to the Original Post, the OP mentions being declined mainstream entry because he / she was half a year too old at entry.... erm since 2010 Equality Act it has been unlawful to discriminate against someone on basis of age alone, so is this a case of unlawful discrimination or simply a other case of Govt saying do as I say, not as I do? Or did the OP not actually pass selection?
Ttfn
Ttfn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being a mere mortal here..... Just going back to the Original Post, the OP mentions being declined mainstream entry because he / she was half a year too old at entry.... erm since 2010 Equality Act it has been unlawful to discriminate against someone on basis of age alone, so is this a case of unlawful discrimination or simply a other case of Govt saying do as I say, not as I do? Or did the OP not actually pass selection?
Ttfn
Ttfn
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: DAVER
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We all know that once you have a bit of time under your belt, and know people in the right places, you can 'make your own deal'. If it's helicopters you're desperate to fly, my thoughts would be to finish IOT, then start looking into moving over to Navy/Army. There are plenty prior examples of people doing this, even for those who were over the max age and in an RAF ground branch. It might be you need to see out your RoS on RPAS, but that's no bad thing.
Last edited by Ascoteer; 3rd Jun 2020 at 10:37.
