Weather 'Flag'Criteria
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Home
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weather 'Flag'Criteria
Can anyone remember the criteria and origins of the 'Flags'declared as weather changed at Stations in the 70s? I presume something different is used now. I seem to remember Red flag was cloud base below 200 feet - not sure of viz. How many others were there?
Are you referring to military 'colour states'? If so, they are still used.
Red is cloud ceiling (not base) less than 200ft and visibility (not RVR) less than 800m.
Red is cloud ceiling (not base) less than 200ft and visibility (not RVR) less than 800m.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always under the impression the reason for a runway being declared Black was that it was unusable for absolutely *any* reason.
I wonder whether the OP is referring to the Flying Training Command and successors Flying Phase system? Phases 1 - 5;
Phase 5 - no restrictions, unrated student solo.
with progressive limitations to
Phase 1 - Green rated only
Any criteria below Phase 1 was usually referred to as Black Flag or occasionally Phase 0 - No Flying.
I cannot recall all the criteria involved, but in addition to the usual ones cloud depth and icing(?) featured.
The full table is probably out there somewhere.
YS
Phase 5 - no restrictions, unrated student solo.
with progressive limitations to
Phase 1 - Green rated only
Any criteria below Phase 1 was usually referred to as Black Flag or occasionally Phase 0 - No Flying.
I cannot recall all the criteria involved, but in addition to the usual ones cloud depth and icing(?) featured.
The full table is probably out there somewhere.
YS
Black Flag used to be accompanied with a number - I think 1 to 5. I recall runway blocked, ice and crosswind. This allowed simplification when the colour states were passed from Ops via a phone (no nifty electronics in the 60s)to be recorded on a board by the duty auth i.e. Waddington is White and Binbrook is Black 3 (which I think was crosswind) etc for all UK bases.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,560
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
One wonders, in the days of yore, whether the colour state was signified by the appropriate coloured flag in the airfield signals square - it could explain the tern "flag"? Just asking.
Black Flag used to be accompanied with a number - I think 1 to 5. I recall runway blocked, ice and crosswind. This allowed simplification when the colour states were passed from Ops via a phone (no nifty electronics in the 60s)to be recorded on a board by the duty auth i.e. Waddington is White and Binbrook is Black 3 (which I think was crosswind) etc for all UK bases.
YS
From memory:
YLO 1 and 2 were UK usage and not adopted by NATO or used in RAFG. This occasionally led to interesting discussions with an OC Ops who had come from Home.
More by accident than design [I think] the abbreviations :
RED AMB YLO GRN WHT BLU have negligible letter commonality , making it very difficult indeed to misread or miss-type a colour state.
BLK was only ever authorized by ATC, Met. added it to the message thus: GRN BLK ......."if the RAF could get its finger out the weather is OK!"
Or RED BLK ..... "don't bother extracting the finger."
Then of course we had the nause of forecast colours, probably because the customer could not understand the TAF.
E & OE of course.
YLO 1 and 2 were UK usage and not adopted by NATO or used in RAFG. This occasionally led to interesting discussions with an OC Ops who had come from Home.
More by accident than design [I think] the abbreviations :
RED AMB YLO GRN WHT BLU have negligible letter commonality , making it very difficult indeed to misread or miss-type a colour state.
BLK was only ever authorized by ATC, Met. added it to the message thus: GRN BLK ......."if the RAF could get its finger out the weather is OK!"
Or RED BLK ..... "don't bother extracting the finger."
Then of course we had the nause of forecast colours, probably because the customer could not understand the TAF.
E & OE of course.
YS interesting comment as I remember B3 but you must be correct in that it was Command/type related. However, I think that the max crosswind for most types was 25 knots in those days - maybe the duty auth imposed this limit, but I don't remember it being so. I can certainly remember airfields going B (x) and this was an aircraft crash on that base!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember as a junior ATCO at Chivenor declaring the airfield black due to worms on the runway.
After heavy rain the blighters all climbed onto the blacktop to escape the waterlogged ground. The braking action was akin to ice. OC Ops, I’ve forgotten his name, mid 1982, was mildly amused by it.
After heavy rain the blighters all climbed onto the blacktop to escape the waterlogged ground. The braking action was akin to ice. OC Ops, I’ve forgotten his name, mid 1982, was mildly amused by it.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,808
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
On the topic of weather codes, my first great Staff achievement (was there another? 
) was in the mid-70s at HQ MATO as a flt lt... getting the RN, AAC, MoD PE and [importantly] USAFE to accept just the weather colour (amplified by r/w and s/w [and QFE/QNH?] instead of the full nine-yards of cloud and vis. Oh, that saved us Area ATCOs so much r/t time!
) was in the mid-70s at HQ MATO as a flt lt... getting the RN, AAC, MoD PE and [importantly] USAFE to accept just the weather colour (amplified by r/w and s/w [and QFE/QNH?] instead of the full nine-yards of cloud and vis. Oh, that saved us Area ATCOs so much r/t time!
"Black Flag" at Linton in the late '60's meant no flying (weather) and generally a 'march' by the students to the pub, followed by us QFI's in various forms of transport ! "White flag" was unrestricted flying - dual & solo. If I remember correctly there was also a black/white flag that denoted only dual and certain student solo elements (senior course etc.) The appropriate flag was flown by ATC and announced on the tannoy when changed. As far as I can remember this was purely a Flying Training Command issue.
Bill
Bill
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Starring at an Airfield Near you
Posts: 371
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
I suggest that the YLO 1/2 'thing' was an 11 Gp aberration as in my 27 years I only came across it at RAF Leuchars, no where else.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 75' from the runway edge and 150' from the threshold
Age: 74
Posts: 247
Received 30 Likes
on
12 Posts
DM-L,
And at Wattisham, Binbrook and Colt. I think that in addition to being 11Gp, It was for the Lightning force (usually near fuel critical at ToC)
And at Wattisham, Binbrook and Colt. I think that in addition to being 11Gp, It was for the Lightning force (usually near fuel critical at ToC)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Age: 61
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,560
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
"Black Flag" at Linton in the late '60's meant no flying (weather) and generally a 'march' by the students to the pub, followed by us QFI's in various forms of transport ! "White flag" was unrestricted flying - dual & solo. If I remember correctly there was also a black/white flag that denoted only dual and certain student solo elements (senior course etc.) The appropriate flag was flown by ATC and announced on the tannoy when changed. As far as I can remember this was purely a Flying Training Command issue.
Bill
Bill
