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75th Anniversary Operation Market Garden

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75th Anniversary Operation Market Garden

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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 21:00
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Originally Posted by ExAscoteer
6 pounders carried in Horsas, 17pounders carried in Hamilcars.

Actually the PIAT was surprisingly effective (being able to penetrate upto 4" of armour) and it didn't produce a backblast, unlike the Bazooka, which lent to its use for FIBUA.The main problems with it were recoil and the difficulty in cocking it.
No real evidence for its effectiveness that I know of, but the basic concept of using a small high pressure charge to push a larger lump of (possibly shaped charge) explosives to the target seems plausible.
The launcher was a lump unfortunately, think this is where the German Panzerfaust equivalents were much more practical. Of course, the Panzerfaust could not be reloaded afaik, so perhaps the UK bean counters saw the PIAT as more cost effective...
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 22:48
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but the basic concept of using a small high pressure charge to push a larger lump of (possibly shaped charge) explosives to the target seems plausible.
... plus a 200 pound main spring, that you re-cocked with your feet!

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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 23:17
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Originally Posted by India Four Two
... plus a 200 pound main spring, that you re-cocked with your feet!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_vS-VdYas
I owned one of those back in earlier days, cocking it was a doddle. Any fit yeoman could do it.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 01:04
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How many Panzers did you bag?

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Old 24th Sep 2019, 05:58
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Originally Posted by India Four Two
How many Panzers did you bag?


None, the projectiles were hard to find in New Jersey.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 10:34
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Originally Posted by etudiant
None, the projectiles were hard to find in New Jersey.
They were hard to find in Arnhem, too.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 11:40
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Originally Posted by etudiant
No real evidence for its effectiveness that I know of, but the basic concept of using a small high pressure charge to push a larger lump of (possibly shaped charge) explosives to the target seems plausible.
It fired a 2.5lb shaped charge warhead. There is plenty of evidence for its effectiveness once the initial problems with accuracy and warhead fusing were sorted out.

For eg there were 6 VCs awarded to PIAT operators which included killing Pazer IVs and at least one Panther.

During the Normandy campaign it was assessed that 7% of all German tanks destroyed by British forces were taken out using the PIAT (compared to 6% taken out by aircraft using RPs).

Furthermore a 1944/45 Canadian Army survey ranked the PIAT as the number one most “outstandingly effective” weapon, followed by the Bren gun.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 12:48
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I hefted one in a museum a while back

IMHO you deserve a VC for firing the beast never mind hitting anything

It's a monstrosity................
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 13:12
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Originally Posted by etudiant
No real evidence for its effectiveness that I know of
An example from Arnhem could be that of Maj Robert Henry Cain VC
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 16:38
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PIAT in use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INa1...ature=youtu.be
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 07:34
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Originally Posted by etudiant
None, the projectiles were hard to find in New Jersey.
as were Tiger tanks.....
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 07:36
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Originally Posted by diginagain

I doubt it - I understood it had to be fired from a prone position as the recoil would knock you back yards and do immense damage to you
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 08:29
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
I hefted one in a museum a while back

IMHO you deserve a VC for firing the beast never mind hitting anything

It's a monstrosity................
Jeremy Clarkson's late father in law won a VC at Arnhem for his inspiration to the troops. His party trick was walking out into the open and firing a PIAT from the hip at German armour at close range.

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Old 25th Sep 2019, 08:39
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I always think the PIAT was a typically English looking solution to a particular problem, large chunks of angle iron, designed to be built in a garden shed by someone who had been told what a bazooka looked like but had never seen one. And then paint the finished item green.................

The projectile itself was actually reasonably effective against the side and rear armour of most tanks. Front sloping or ERA - almost a waste of time. Pretty heavy to carry too - anyone who has had to heft the 84 around will understand that particular problem...................

Arc
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:52
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Originally Posted by Arclite01
The projectile itself was actually reasonably effective against the side and rear armour of most tanks. Front sloping or ERA - almost a waste of time.
Arc
No ERA during WWII. The major defences against a shaped charge were (as you say) sloped armour, and spaced armour (think StuG III and StuG IV side-plates).
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 11:27
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Originally Posted by ExAscoteer
No ERA during WWII. The major defences against a shaped charge were (as you say) sloped armour, and spaced armour (think StuG III and StuG IV side-plates).
Apologies meant spaced armour (doh - brain freeze)

Arc
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 14:04
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Wensleydale - weren't Maj Cain VC and Clarkson's F-I-L the same chap, and nobody in the family knew about the VC until a few years ago
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 15:10
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Originally Posted by Wander00
Wensleydale - weren't Maj Cain VC and Clarkson's F-I-L the same chap, and nobody in the family knew about the VC until a few years ago
the name escaped me, but I believe so. Clarkson stated that he did not know about the VC until after his FiL's death.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 16:13
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Frances Catherine Cain (daughter of Maj Robert Henty Cain VC) married Jeremy Clarkson in 1993 as his second wife. They divorced in 2014.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 18:56
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Another Arnhem Dakota story from the EDP; https://www.edp24.co.uk/features/sur...ttle-1-6282266
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