Defence under a Corbyn Government
Doubtful. Racists not likely to vote to maintain free movement of foreigners into their towns. Malcontents not likely to vote for the status quo of which they are, well, malcontent. Deplorables? Well, that's a matter of opinion so perhaps, if you say so. The contrast of close to a million men, women and children marching peacefully through London with minimal police involvement to the thuggish and loutish counter-demonstration the following week told its own story.
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Doubtful. Racists not likely to vote to maintain free movement of foreigners into their towns. Malcontents not likely to vote for the status quo of which they are, well, malcontent. Deplorables? Well, that's a matter of opinion so perhaps, if you say so. The contrast of close to a million men, women and children marching peacefully through London with minimal police involvement to the thuggish and loutish counter-demonstration the following week told its own story.
Begone.
Although I considered Belgium, I decided that it would not meet the ideological criteria. 
WOPT
If you consider your point to be that a realignment of defence strategy and direction is "fanciful", then I must assume that you do not accept the necessity for the defense posture of the West over the last 70 years. The Western Powers did not continue their drive through Germany at the end of the war that resulted in a divided Germany. Equally the infamous wall did not need to be built to keep Western troops from invading East Germany, but rather for keeping millions of Germans trapped inside a communist cage. Poland resisted a German invasion but still crumbled under a later invasion from Russia, ditto Czechoslovakia, etc. "Liberation" is not a realistic interpretation of events.
Following on from the recent grab of Crimea, where do you suggest that the next "Liberation" will occur?: Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Finland?
I respectfully submit that you may wish to reconsider your proposal that these narratives be consigned to JB simply because they do not align with your alternate view of reality.
Further:
I have never owned a rifle so no requirement to join any organisation similar to the NRA .
IG
WOPT
If you consider your point to be that a realignment of defence strategy and direction is "fanciful", then I must assume that you do not accept the necessity for the defense posture of the West over the last 70 years. The Western Powers did not continue their drive through Germany at the end of the war that resulted in a divided Germany. Equally the infamous wall did not need to be built to keep Western troops from invading East Germany, but rather for keeping millions of Germans trapped inside a communist cage. Poland resisted a German invasion but still crumbled under a later invasion from Russia, ditto Czechoslovakia, etc. "Liberation" is not a realistic interpretation of events.
Following on from the recent grab of Crimea, where do you suggest that the next "Liberation" will occur?: Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Finland?
I respectfully submit that you may wish to reconsider your proposal that these narratives be consigned to JB simply because they do not align with your alternate view of reality.
Further:
I have never owned a rifle so no requirement to join any organisation similar to the NRA .
IG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
Doubtful. Racists not likely to vote to maintain free movement of foreigners into their towns. Malcontents not likely to vote for the status quo of which they are, well, malcontent. Deplorables? Well, that's a matter of opinion so perhaps, if you say so. The contrast of close to a million men, women and children marching peacefully through London with minimal police involvement to the thuggish and loutish counter-demonstration the following week told its own story.
You should head up to Govan this weekend and have your eyes truly opened to foreigners, racists and thugs.
Begone.
Originally Posted by Mil-26Man
Doubtful. Racists not likely to vote to maintain free movement of foreigners into their towns. Malcontents not likely to vote for the status quo of which they are, well, malcontent. Deplorables? Well, that's a matter of opinion so perhaps, if you say so. The contrast of close to a million men, women and children marching peacefully through London with minimal police involvement to the thuggish and loutish counter-demonstration the following week told its own story.
You should head up to Govan this weekend and have your eyes truly opened to foreigners, racists and thugs.
Begone.
Back on thread, there's 2 pages on Defence in the current Labour manifesto.
DEFENCE
The primary duty of any government is to protect and defend its citizens.
We live in a period of growing international tensions.
A strong, viable and sustainable defence and security policy must be strategic and evidence led.
As previous incoming governments have done, a Labour government will order a complete strategic defence and security review when it comes into office, to assess the emerging threats facing Britain, including hybrid and cyber warfare.
Cyber security will form an integral part of our defence and security strategy and we will introduce a cyber-security charter for companies working with the Ministry of Defence.
We will ensure that our armed forces are properly equipped and resourced to respond to wide-ranging security challenges.
Labour will commit to effective 8N peacekeeping, including support for a UN Emergency Peace Service.As the security threats and challenges we face are not bound by geographic borders, it is vital that as Britain leaves the EU, we maintain our close relationship with our European partners.
Alongside our commitment to NATO, we will continue to work with the EU on a range of operational missions to promote and support global and regional security.
The last Labour government consistently spent above the NATO benchmark of 2 per cent of GDP. Conservative spending cuts have put Britain’s security at risk, shrinking the army to its smallest size since the Napoleonic wars.
The scrapping of Nimrod, HMS Ark Royal and the Harrier jump-jets have weakened our defences and cost British taxpayers millions.
Labour’s commitment to spending at least 2 per cent of GDP on defence will guarantee that our Armed Forces have the necessary capabilities to fulfil the full range of obligations, and ensure our conventional forces are versatile and able to deploy in a range of roles.
Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent. As a nuclear-armed power, our country has a responsibility to fulfil our obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Labour will lead multilateral efforts with international partners and the UN to create a nuclear-free world.
The defence industry is world-leading, and Labour will continue to support development and innovation in this sector and to ensure that it can continue to rely on a highly skilled workforce.
We are committed to a procurement process that supports the British steel industry and defence manufacturing industry, which in turn provide good jobs throughout the supply chain.
Labour will publish a Defence Industrial Strategy White Paper, including a National Shipbuilding Strategy to secure a long-term future for the industry, workers and defence.
We have a duty to properly reward and remunerate our Armed Forces.
Under the Conservatives, our Armed Forces have been hit by rent rises, pay restraint, and changes to tax and benefits, putting real pressure on service personnel and their families.
We will ensure they get the pay and living conditions that their service merits.
Dedicated service personnel are at the heart of our defence policy.
Labour will immediately examine recruitment and retention policies in order to stem the exodus seen under the Conservatives.
We will publish new strategic equality objectives to ensure our personnel reȵect our diverse society.
We will drive up standards in Service Accommodation, and take action where private companies have failed to deliver.
We will consult with service personnel, giving them greater autonomy over their housing choices, and review and improve the Forces Help to Buy scheme.Personnel who are injured while serving should have prompt access to support and compensation.
We will resist any Conservative proposals to abolish the right to seek legal redress against the MoD where compensation claims cannot be otherwise settled.
We are fully committed to supporting our veterans.
We will promote greater awareness of the Armed Forces Covenant, seek greater consistency in its implementation by public authorities, and promote increased participation in the Corporate Covenant.
We will also roll out a Homes Fit for Heroes programme that will insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free.
The primary duty of any government is to protect and defend its citizens.
We live in a period of growing international tensions.
A strong, viable and sustainable defence and security policy must be strategic and evidence led.
As previous incoming governments have done, a Labour government will order a complete strategic defence and security review when it comes into office, to assess the emerging threats facing Britain, including hybrid and cyber warfare.
Cyber security will form an integral part of our defence and security strategy and we will introduce a cyber-security charter for companies working with the Ministry of Defence.
We will ensure that our armed forces are properly equipped and resourced to respond to wide-ranging security challenges.
Labour will commit to effective 8N peacekeeping, including support for a UN Emergency Peace Service.As the security threats and challenges we face are not bound by geographic borders, it is vital that as Britain leaves the EU, we maintain our close relationship with our European partners.
Alongside our commitment to NATO, we will continue to work with the EU on a range of operational missions to promote and support global and regional security.
The last Labour government consistently spent above the NATO benchmark of 2 per cent of GDP. Conservative spending cuts have put Britain’s security at risk, shrinking the army to its smallest size since the Napoleonic wars.
The scrapping of Nimrod, HMS Ark Royal and the Harrier jump-jets have weakened our defences and cost British taxpayers millions.
Labour’s commitment to spending at least 2 per cent of GDP on defence will guarantee that our Armed Forces have the necessary capabilities to fulfil the full range of obligations, and ensure our conventional forces are versatile and able to deploy in a range of roles.
Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent. As a nuclear-armed power, our country has a responsibility to fulfil our obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Labour will lead multilateral efforts with international partners and the UN to create a nuclear-free world.
The defence industry is world-leading, and Labour will continue to support development and innovation in this sector and to ensure that it can continue to rely on a highly skilled workforce.
We are committed to a procurement process that supports the British steel industry and defence manufacturing industry, which in turn provide good jobs throughout the supply chain.
Labour will publish a Defence Industrial Strategy White Paper, including a National Shipbuilding Strategy to secure a long-term future for the industry, workers and defence.
We have a duty to properly reward and remunerate our Armed Forces.
Under the Conservatives, our Armed Forces have been hit by rent rises, pay restraint, and changes to tax and benefits, putting real pressure on service personnel and their families.
We will ensure they get the pay and living conditions that their service merits.
Dedicated service personnel are at the heart of our defence policy.
Labour will immediately examine recruitment and retention policies in order to stem the exodus seen under the Conservatives.
We will publish new strategic equality objectives to ensure our personnel reȵect our diverse society.
We will drive up standards in Service Accommodation, and take action where private companies have failed to deliver.
We will consult with service personnel, giving them greater autonomy over their housing choices, and review and improve the Forces Help to Buy scheme.Personnel who are injured while serving should have prompt access to support and compensation.
We will resist any Conservative proposals to abolish the right to seek legal redress against the MoD where compensation claims cannot be otherwise settled.
We are fully committed to supporting our veterans.
We will promote greater awareness of the Armed Forces Covenant, seek greater consistency in its implementation by public authorities, and promote increased participation in the Corporate Covenant.
We will also roll out a Homes Fit for Heroes programme that will insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free.
Any Labour Govt would look to protect jobs in the manufacturing sector - so they'd be happy to spend (some) money on new ships (T26, River class for example), and maybe replace the Successor SSBN's with more Astutes. I'd suspect fewer F-35's or at least a minimum spend but maybe more helicopter's. More cash for tanks and armoured vehicles and less on drones. Probably a small pay raise for the troops as well
Sorry, can't fault the original post.
McD's policies will have exactly the effect noted.
During the last election campaign, Jerremy Vine intervied all of the main pary leaders live on his radio show.
Corbyn was brilliant at the social stuff, but that's where it all ended.
When asked about defence, business, foreign policy, and other non-social departments he was lost.
The only stock answer he could come up with was that he'd pay for eveything by taxing business.
The fact that nearly half the working population (ie. The 'Poor'...) don't actually pay any tax and the fact that over a quarter of the UK's tax take is paid by around 100,000 people (Many of whom will leave the UK under a Corbyn gov) was lost on him...
The poor, who have been voting Labour for the last century or so, are still poor...
It's in Corbyn and McD's interest to keep them that way...
McD's policies will have exactly the effect noted.
During the last election campaign, Jerremy Vine intervied all of the main pary leaders live on his radio show.
Corbyn was brilliant at the social stuff, but that's where it all ended.
When asked about defence, business, foreign policy, and other non-social departments he was lost.
The only stock answer he could come up with was that he'd pay for eveything by taxing business.
The fact that nearly half the working population (ie. The 'Poor'...) don't actually pay any tax and the fact that over a quarter of the UK's tax take is paid by around 100,000 people (Many of whom will leave the UK under a Corbyn gov) was lost on him...
The poor, who have been voting Labour for the last century or so, are still poor...
It's in Corbyn and McD's interest to keep them that way...
It is surely indicative of sustained bad policies if half the working population is not paying taxes and even worse if wealth distribution is so skewed that 100,000 people out of maybe 25 million working citizens account for 25% of government revenues.
Bizarre, The Tories have constantly run down the Armed Forces during their time in power, yet apparently they are still trusted by those in the Armed Forces?
A comment is made that 'words and promises 'are cheap' in the run up to the election. Well that at least is true. You only have to look at the sums Boris is allegedly going to splash around to see that. Only 6 months or so ago we were in Austerity measures. Suddenly we have loads of cash to splash, well at least until it actually has to be found.
Corbyn is not my cup of tea in any way shape or form, but to suggest that he is alone in using empty words is so far from the truth.
A comment is made that 'words and promises 'are cheap' in the run up to the election. Well that at least is true. You only have to look at the sums Boris is allegedly going to splash around to see that. Only 6 months or so ago we were in Austerity measures. Suddenly we have loads of cash to splash, well at least until it actually has to be found.
Corbyn is not my cup of tea in any way shape or form, but to suggest that he is alone in using empty words is so far from the truth.
Both sides lie all the time
The problem is always that defence has a terrible record on delivery on costs and UK voters only care about their pensions and the NHS
The problem is always that defence has a terrible record on delivery on costs and UK voters only care about their pensions and the NHS
CG (pensioner, defence watcher)
Defence under a Corbyn Government
I ,like many thousands of others, spent most of our lives defending our hard won democracy against a threat which at the time was very real.
I am very surprised that on this military forum there are so many contributors who seem quite happy to risk installing a marxist in number 10. Have they short memories or are they just too young to remember?
I am very surprised that on this military forum there are so many contributors who seem quite happy to risk installing a marxist in number 10. Have they short memories or are they just too young to remember?
"Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent."
Yet has a leader who says he would NEVER use it, no matter what. Guess they don't understand how a "deterrent" works.
Yet has a leader who says he would NEVER use it, no matter what. Guess they don't understand how a "deterrent" works.
I ,like many thousands of others, spent most of our lives defending our hard won democracy against a threat which at the time was very real.
I am very surprised that on this military forum there are so many contributors who seem quite happy to risk installing a marxist in number 10. Have they short memories or are they just too young to remember?
I am very surprised that on this military forum there are so many contributors who seem quite happy to risk installing a marxist in number 10. Have they short memories or are they just too young to remember?
Based on the "Trot" philosophy of continuous revolution until capitalism is expunged, manufacturers will stagnate and evaporate followed by any defense funds being very quickly dissipated amongst the great have nots..
IG
IG
Last edited by Imagegear; 13th Sep 2019 at 09:27.
depends who you are deterring
US no
France - unlikely
Israel - Unlikely
India - no
pakistan - no
N Korea - unlikely
Russia - yes - but I remember Mr. Khrushchev threatening to turn the UK Into a burnt cinder in 5 minutes way back ... so I don't think they 're terribly impressed TBH
US no
France - unlikely
Israel - Unlikely
India - no
pakistan - no
N Korea - unlikely
Russia - yes - but I remember Mr. Khrushchev threatening to turn the UK Into a burnt cinder in 5 minutes way back ... so I don't think they 're terribly impressed TBH