Defence under a Corbyn Government
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I also think it will will be more likely that a Lib Dem/Labour coalition based around a second referendum will be the most likely outcome. Oh, with Sir Kier or Tom Watson at the helm. The unions will forget Corbyn the minute power is denied them by his leadership. The Tory party will be split by not only Brexit Loon Party vote dilution, but by Remain favoured constituencies that will vote en masse for Lib Dem. Wait and see what happens when clown boy expels leading Tories this week - I am guessing that a few will be wearing a yellow seagull by the end of next week. Their constituents would prefer this than than see the current bunch of careerist rank amateurs further slur the name of this country in support of an agenda very few support.
Last edited by VinRouge; 2nd Sep 2019 at 16:02.
Avoid imitations
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Thread Starter
Just a quicky relating to the EU but slightly off topic, can anyone recall the Red Arrows, among other, being banned from over flying the crowdline from the rear? An EU air safety regulation or other I recall.
FB
FB
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That seems sort of a replay of the US situation with Trump. He came into office facing exactly those issues.
In his case, it has taken him most of his first term just to get to a marginal situation, even though as C in C and Chief Executive, he has much more freedom than
a British PM.
So I'd expect a Corbyn administration to be deliberately boring. Just as Corbyn, an excellent tactician, has thus far been able to deflect or overcome numerous efforts to sideline him in politics, I'd expect the same in defense and intelligence.
Indeed, most likely he would start with a dollop of sugar and a dash of kindness for the Services, just to take the wind out of the sails of his more rabid opponents.
That would buy him time to come to grips with the reality of restoring a shrunken resource base and of re balancing the country's global commitments.
In his case, it has taken him most of his first term just to get to a marginal situation, even though as C in C and Chief Executive, he has much more freedom than
a British PM.
So I'd expect a Corbyn administration to be deliberately boring. Just as Corbyn, an excellent tactician, has thus far been able to deflect or overcome numerous efforts to sideline him in politics, I'd expect the same in defense and intelligence.
Indeed, most likely he would start with a dollop of sugar and a dash of kindness for the Services, just to take the wind out of the sails of his more rabid opponents.
That would buy him time to come to grips with the reality of restoring a shrunken resource base and of re balancing the country's global commitments.
I have heard Corbyn described as many things in recent times, excellent tactician isn’t however, one of them.
His approach is one of the student debating Society and is naive. His strength is in campaigning not leading or governing. Just look at the current outrage over the planned proroguation of Parliament. Corbyn has had how long to call a no confidence vote in Johnson, but he fluffed it. Not only did he fluff it, he telegraphed his intent ahead of time before then holding back for the perfect moment. Johnson’s circus must have been laughing all the way to Balmoral to speak to the Queen. They didn’t need intelligence, Corbyn told them what he was thinking and then waffled.
For me, Corbyn is the puppet. McDonnell and Momentum are the real puppet masters and the threat to Defence and the nation’s security. Should Corbyn ever be elected (and I’m with Vin Rouge here in thinking the Tories are currently in a hard right / populist echo chamber which may or may not reflect as much of he electorate as they imagine) I think we’ll find him being sidelined by his own people to press home the full extent of Marxist Government they want.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
FB, your defence narrative is seductively plausible but pr00ne's point about the Tories is the clincher. You are quite wrong about the Invincible class. Before the Falklands the Illustrious was being proper for sale to Australia and I am not sure about Arm Royal.
You mention Sands.
I don't have the time to work out the aircraft procurement time lines or research, orders and cancellations. I know that cancelling aircraft programmes and smashing up completed aircraft is virtually criminal. Similarly suddenly scrapping an entire force is monumentally risky.
Wilson is seen to be the architect of our withdrawing from East of Suez. In fact my earlier research shows the reverse. The US, with increasing involvement in Vietnam, urged Wilson to maintain our presence East of Suez and he wanted to do that. He was also under pressure to maintain our forces in NATO.
You mention Sands.
I don't have the time to work out the aircraft procurement time lines or research, orders and cancellations. I know that cancelling aircraft programmes and smashing up completed aircraft is virtually criminal. Similarly suddenly scrapping an entire force is monumentally risky.
Wilson is seen to be the architect of our withdrawing from East of Suez. In fact my earlier research shows the reverse. The US, with increasing involvement in Vietnam, urged Wilson to maintain our presence East of Suez and he wanted to do that. He was also under pressure to maintain our forces in NATO.
no support from Blair
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49552403
Politics is not my forte but Mr Corbyn seems to be clutching at straws
Politics is not my forte but Mr Corbyn seems to be clutching at straws
Always find it odd Corbyn is referred to as a communist and or Marxist, when ( unless you cleave to the wise pronouncements of the Daily Heil!)he patently isn’t;
As far as preferring dialogue over war fighting, really not an aspect of any politician I would hold in contempt! Even Winnie preferred “jaw jaw to war war” ! Can’t really think of many recent conflicts that changed anything for the better!
As far as preferring dialogue over war fighting, really not an aspect of any politician I would hold in contempt! Even Winnie preferred “jaw jaw to war war” ! Can’t really think of many recent conflicts that changed anything for the better!
Thread Starter
FB, your defence narrative is seductively plausible but pr00ne's point about the Tories is the clincher. You are quite wrong about the Invincible class. Before the Falklands the Illustrious was being proper for sale to Australia and I am not sure about Arm Royal.
You mention Sands.
I don't have the time to work out the aircraft procurement time lines or research, orders and cancellations. I know that cancelling aircraft programmes and smashing up completed aircraft is virtually criminal. Similarly suddenly scrapping an entire force is monumentally risky.
Wilson is seen to be the architect of our withdrawing from East of Suez. In fact my earlier research shows the reverse. The US, with increasing involvement in Vietnam, urged Wilson to maintain our presence East of Suez and he wanted to do that. He was also under pressure to maintain our forces in NATO.
You mention Sands.
I don't have the time to work out the aircraft procurement time lines or research, orders and cancellations. I know that cancelling aircraft programmes and smashing up completed aircraft is virtually criminal. Similarly suddenly scrapping an entire force is monumentally risky.
Wilson is seen to be the architect of our withdrawing from East of Suez. In fact my earlier research shows the reverse. The US, with increasing involvement in Vietnam, urged Wilson to maintain our presence East of Suez and he wanted to do that. He was also under pressure to maintain our forces in NATO.
The Labour Governments of Wilson and Callaghan did make it clear they wanted to concentrate the defence effort in Central Europe and NATO. But they were at the time less easy to convince of the need for what we now call expeditionary forces. Hence the scrapping of the aircraft carriers, that was a part of the end of the East of Suez deployments. Labour in office did in fact increase the number of aircraft in Germany, they maintained the Harrier Force while assigning only two squadron number plates the third, 20, becoming an additional Strike Sqn at Bruggen with Jaguars. The trouble with Labour is, they have always been blighted by the left wing of the party, the Labour Defence Study Group I referred to was headed by Ian Mikardo MP his recommendation that the entire Tornado Force be scrapped before the first aircraft rolled off the production line was simply to divert funds elsewhere including raising the school leaving age. Callaghan paid no notice of course. When we've had a Labour government it has always been essentially the right wing of the party which has largely filled the cabinet. When Foot and Kinnock were leading they remained in opposition, this time with Corbyn....
FB
etudiant,
I have heard Corbyn described as many things in recent times, excellent tactician isn’t however, one of them.
His approach is one of the student debating Society and is naive. His strength is in campaigning not leading or governing. Just look at the current outrage over the planned proroguation of Parliament. Corbyn has had how long to call a no confidence vote in Johnson, but he fluffed it. Not only did he fluff it, he telegraphed his intent ahead of time before then holding back for the perfect moment. Johnson’s circus must have been laughing all the way to Balmoral to speak to the Queen. They didn’t need intelligence, Corbyn told them what he was thinking and then waffled.
For me, Corbyn is the puppet. McDonnell and Momentum are the real puppet masters and the threat to Defence and the nation’s security. Should Corbyn ever be elected (and I’m with Vin Rouge here in thinking the Tories are currently in a hard right / populist echo chamber which may or may not reflect as much of he electorate as they imagine) I think we’ll find him being sidelined by his own people to press home the full extent of Marxist Government they want.
Sun Who
That is an interesting graph. However, using spend per head may be slightly misleading.
Between 1983 and 1997 the population increased by roughly 2-3 million. That will clearly affect the figures somewhat.
Now, I accept that the population also increased once Blair took over but let's not forget that his ‘reign’ coincided with an almost permanent state of war on two fronts. Some might say that he had a tiny involvement in that fact.
So, whilst I am not arguing the ‘who spends the most’ point I would be interested to see a graph that shows defence spending in real terms or something similar.
BV
Between 1983 and 1997 the population increased by roughly 2-3 million. That will clearly affect the figures somewhat.
Now, I accept that the population also increased once Blair took over but let's not forget that his ‘reign’ coincided with an almost permanent state of war on two fronts. Some might say that he had a tiny involvement in that fact.
So, whilst I am not arguing the ‘who spends the most’ point I would be interested to see a graph that shows defence spending in real terms or something similar.
BV
Meester proach
If you have no ties whatsoever with the UK then you are obviously free to go as you choose, and do not need to be concerned.
IG
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I have already left, but it still concerns me for my kids, grand-kids, extended family, friends, colleagues, international relations and cultural heritage.
If you have no ties whatsoever with the UK then you are obviously free to go as you choose, and do not need to be concerned.
IG
If you have no ties whatsoever with the UK then you are obviously free to go as you choose, and do not need to be concerned.
IG