Heads Up! Fighter Pilot: The Real Top Gun
As an ex graduate of No 1(Hunter) Cse I found myself reminiscing about those halcyon days of my youth. Drunken Sundays at the 'Sandymount Club' at Rhosneigr, paddling across the lake on a Sabre drop tank etc. Not sure that I remember being distracted by ATC on an IP to Tgt run or calling my instructor mate though!
The F35 stuff was interesting, I'm ex 617 too! Hopefully it'll encourage a few more millennials to give it a go......even if they do think 4G is 'awesome' !
The F35 stuff was interesting, I'm ex 617 too! Hopefully it'll encourage a few more millennials to give it a go......even if they do think 4G is 'awesome' !
4G? Four ******* G? Christ on a bike, JP5A was 5.5G without a bloody G Suit!
TTN (proud to be an old fossil
)
So can Pruners tell m e what they expect the students to call the instructor? They were both equivalent ranks (OF2) and no doubt got on well from the bits I saw, It certainly doesn't call for a sir, maybe staff?
ITV Series
I haven’t seen it (and I’m not in it) so can’t and won’t comment on its content.
What strikes me as funny though is that the series that was made in the 1980s attracts much comment on how bad the instruction was (also never seen it so can’t comment). It also led to adverse affects for some of its participants. The new series has already attracted comment for how it is not like the good old days.
So my question is, are some people ever going to be happy with any documentary? Also, when exactly were the good old days? And if people don’t like what’s on show now, didn’t like what was on show 35 years ago when exactly was instruction to their liking?
Would I be right in thinking that, since this is a documentary for the masses and probably to aid recruitment, it is not targeted at long retired RAF members?
Yes I have opened myself up to yet more criticism from the usual suspects. I am beginning to care less and less though.
BV
What strikes me as funny though is that the series that was made in the 1980s attracts much comment on how bad the instruction was (also never seen it so can’t comment). It also led to adverse affects for some of its participants. The new series has already attracted comment for how it is not like the good old days.
So my question is, are some people ever going to be happy with any documentary? Also, when exactly were the good old days? And if people don’t like what’s on show now, didn’t like what was on show 35 years ago when exactly was instruction to their liking?
Would I be right in thinking that, since this is a documentary for the masses and probably to aid recruitment, it is not targeted at long retired RAF members?
Yes I have opened myself up to yet more criticism from the usual suspects. I am beginning to care less and less though.
BV
Is it me or is the course size really small nowadays - is this a MFTS thing or were they just cherry-picking the most media-friendly students?
Bleating Betty seems a big distraction at low level - isn't there an audio inhibit?
Nice to see the progress made with the F35. Harrier mates used to do a hovering course at Shawbury before the OCU, does this happen for the F 35?
Overall - some cringy bits and some good bits (the flying)
Bleating Betty seems a big distraction at low level - isn't there an audio inhibit?
Nice to see the progress made with the F35. Harrier mates used to do a hovering course at Shawbury before the OCU, does this happen for the F 35?
Overall - some cringy bits and some good bits (the flying)
Before this descends into Monty Python’s Yorkshireman Sketch of “Luxury...we had it tough...”
Let’s answer some of the ‘outrage bus’ questions.
1. The 4g to 5g sortie was a famil trip - no point in pulling the wings off of the jet, it’s there to familiarise the student in the aircraft before the harder stuff starts (ie. to ease them in).
2. Where are the maps and charts? You will have seen the Mission Planning Aid in the TV programme and oddly enough we plan electronically these days - colour printed maps and IP/Tgt runs are still carried in case the kit stops playing.
3. 6g in a JP? Really? I don’t recall more than 5g for most of my JP flying.
4. Calling instructors ‘Sir’ on Advanced Jet Training (AJT) - this is equivalent of a little bit of the old AFT and TWU - I don’t recall calling my instructors “Sir” on TWU or even on 4FTS. So I suspect that some folks’ memories are playing tricks on them, as I can’t recall calling any of my instructors “Sir”, unless a Sqn Ldr/Wg Cdr/Gp Capt, and I have been flying in the RAF for 30 years.
So how about looking at the positive stuff - we still have a fast jet flying training system that other countries pay good money to use, we now have a far lower ‘chop’ rate as we actually teach and test these days, it is a far healthier learning environment, we have a modernised trg aircraft that now reflects the FL type they will go to (with airborne electronic threat simulation that instructor can bring up during the sortie), we now have a fast jet trainer with a basic collision warning system and the aircraft that we are training them to fly on the FL are far more capable than any than went before - 9g Typhoons and 5th generation F35s. So let’s just enjoy the filming and the insight to a trg system that is vastly different to even the one 15 years ago. The only real criticism I have over this trg system is the fact that we didn’t plan enough capacity in it from SDSR10/SDSR15 and so now we have too little capacity/aircraft for what we really need.
Finally, the young men and women that will be the future of the RAF and FAA are still very fine individuals indeed - there are still very few “w**k*rs on your wing” - probably as many, by percentage, as there ever were. It’s just that this new breed are culturally different, but underneath they still have what it takes to do what is asked of them.
Let’s answer some of the ‘outrage bus’ questions.
1. The 4g to 5g sortie was a famil trip - no point in pulling the wings off of the jet, it’s there to familiarise the student in the aircraft before the harder stuff starts (ie. to ease them in).
2. Where are the maps and charts? You will have seen the Mission Planning Aid in the TV programme and oddly enough we plan electronically these days - colour printed maps and IP/Tgt runs are still carried in case the kit stops playing.
3. 6g in a JP? Really? I don’t recall more than 5g for most of my JP flying.
4. Calling instructors ‘Sir’ on Advanced Jet Training (AJT) - this is equivalent of a little bit of the old AFT and TWU - I don’t recall calling my instructors “Sir” on TWU or even on 4FTS. So I suspect that some folks’ memories are playing tricks on them, as I can’t recall calling any of my instructors “Sir”, unless a Sqn Ldr/Wg Cdr/Gp Capt, and I have been flying in the RAF for 30 years.
So how about looking at the positive stuff - we still have a fast jet flying training system that other countries pay good money to use, we now have a far lower ‘chop’ rate as we actually teach and test these days, it is a far healthier learning environment, we have a modernised trg aircraft that now reflects the FL type they will go to (with airborne electronic threat simulation that instructor can bring up during the sortie), we now have a fast jet trainer with a basic collision warning system and the aircraft that we are training them to fly on the FL are far more capable than any than went before - 9g Typhoons and 5th generation F35s. So let’s just enjoy the filming and the insight to a trg system that is vastly different to even the one 15 years ago. The only real criticism I have over this trg system is the fact that we didn’t plan enough capacity in it from SDSR10/SDSR15 and so now we have too little capacity/aircraft for what we really need.
Finally, the young men and women that will be the future of the RAF and FAA are still very fine individuals indeed - there are still very few “w**k*rs on your wing” - probably as many, by percentage, as there ever were. It’s just that this new breed are culturally different, but underneath they still have what it takes to do what is asked of them.
NINE years into an RAF career before you even got into a Hawk??? I'm assuming the pilot quoted hadn't switched branches either. Is that length of time typical these days? 10+ years before you're combat ready?
Lima Juliet, Well maybe we are a bunch of old fogies, but personally I have found a sea-change in attitudes over the years caused by lack of discipline & respect for authority/elders, all across the whole spectrum of society. . The whole point of the armed forces is to fight and that means sometimes telling soldiers to do unpleasant things. Without discipline and respect for authority (one of these students said he had a problem with authority; FFS), soldiers will do as they please. Sadly, we are in a touchy-feely society today; drill Sgts cannot shout as students etc etc. I could go on mentioning the softening of rules etc... but ultimately the RAF is a fighting force; disciple, respect and standards are vital. But what do I know, I'm just an old fogie.
Lima Juliet, Well maybe we are a bunch of old fogies, but personally I have found a sea-change in attitudes over the years caused by lack of discipline & respect for authority/elders, all across the whole spectrum of society. . The whole point of the armed forces is to fight and that means sometimes telling soldiers to do unpleasant things. Without discipline and respect for authority (one of these students said he had a problem with authority; FFS), soldiers will do as they please. Sadly, we are in a touchy-feely society today; drill Sgts cannot shout as students etc etc. I could go on mentioning the softening of rules etc... but ultimately the RAF is a fighting force; disciple, respect and standards are vital. But what do I know, I'm just an old fogie.
The people you bemoan are the ones your generation created. So who's to blame?
"drill Sgts cannot shout at students " ... and you wonder why no-one wants to join up
these days you EXPLAIN what you want and why and hope the trainees will use their intelligence to achieve the results - in fact that approach often leads to better outcomes as they can adapt to changes in circumstances rather than blindly "Obey orders" or freeze and have to call back in for new instructions
The days of blind obedience are long gone
these days you EXPLAIN what you want and why and hope the trainees will use their intelligence to achieve the results - in fact that approach often leads to better outcomes as they can adapt to changes in circumstances rather than blindly "Obey orders" or freeze and have to call back in for new instructions
The days of blind obedience are long gone
Lima Juliet, Well maybe we are a bunch of old fogies, but personally I have found a sea-change in attitudes over the years caused by lack of discipline & respect for authority/elders, all across the whole spectrum of society. . The whole point of the armed forces is to fight and that means sometimes telling soldiers to do unpleasant things. Without discipline and respect for authority (one of these students said he had a problem with authority; FFS), soldiers will do as they please. Sadly, we are in a touchy-feely society today; drill Sgts cannot shout as students etc etc. I could go on mentioning the softening of rules etc... but ultimately the RAF is a fighting force; disciple, respect and standards are vital. But what do I know, I'm just an old fogie.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Harrier mates used to do a hovering course at Shawbury before the OCU, does this happen for the F 35?
The days of blind obedience are long gone
Lima Juliet, Well maybe we are a bunch of old fogies, but personally I have found a sea-change in attitudes over the years caused by lack of discipline & respect for authority/elders, all across the whole spectrum of society. . The whole point of the armed forces is to fight and that means sometimes telling soldiers to do unpleasant things. Without discipline and respect for authority (one of these students said he had a problem with authority; FFS), soldiers will do as they please. Sadly, we are in a touchy-feely society today; drill Sgts cannot shout as students etc etc. I could go on mentioning the softening of rules etc... but ultimately the RAF is a fighting force; disciple, respect and standards are vital. But what do I know, I'm just an old fogie.
Without discipline and respect for authority (one of these students said he had a problem with authority; FFS), soldiers will do as they please - Soldiers and Airmen will still do as they please when they please, should they be so inclined, as they used to do when I first joined up in the 80s. Soldiers and Airmen still have respect and discipline now, as I can attest to on a daily basis.
Sadly, we are in a touchy-feely society today; drill Sgts cannot shout as students etc etc - Yes they can and yes they do. Perhaps things are slightly different, but its called Emotional Intelligence. Times change.
ultimately the RAF is a fighting force; disciple, respect and standards are vital. - Op TELIC, Op Herrick, Op Ellamy and Op SHADER proved the RAF was a fighting force and still is. If you remember AP 1, Respect, Integrity, Service and Excellence is still extant.
Happy to discuss via PM.
Regards
Had to laugh though when Bally couldn’t log into his jet. Who controls that database I wonder?
“You want me on the boat over Christmas? Not if you ever want your jet to start again”
I bet when the instructor asked the cameras to leave he gave Bally his own log in!
“You want me on the boat over Christmas? Not if you ever want your jet to start again”
I bet when the instructor asked the cameras to leave he gave Bally his own log in!