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Intermediate Range Cruise missile test

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Old 19th Aug 2019, 17:07
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Intermediate Range Cruise missile test

The DoD tested an Intermediate Range Cruise missile off the coast of California, it was fired at San Nicolas Island, Calif., and it accurately “impacted its target” more than 500 kilometers away, according to a Pentagon statement.

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Old 20th Aug 2019, 06:52
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Just in a few days after the USA are formally and officially out of the treaty (which they were "strictly following") they managaed to design, manufacture and test a new missile. What an impressive speed of work :-)
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 07:03
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well they 've had years to prepare given Russia's blatant actions over the last few years Van........................

I just don't understand why Russia thought the US would ignore their breaches of the Treaty - did no-one remember what happened in the 70's & 80's???

The Yanks can outspend Russia, out produce Russia, and have missiles that actually work (rather than dust everyone with atomic waste on test)
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 09:01
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The Yanks can outspend Russia, out produce Russia, and have missiles that actually work (rather than dust everyone with atomic waste on test)
Given the size of Russia's economy (about the size of Spain's) and the success of Reagan's plan to outspend Gorbachev precipitating the collapse of the USSR, I would have thought that the best way of forcing Putin out of power would be for the US to ramp up military expenditure, forcing Putin and his cronies to follow suit until growing discontent from the increasingly impoverished populace finally caused him to be thrown out or to stand down?
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 09:20
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Originally Posted by A_Van
Just in a few days after the USA are formally and officially out of the treaty (which they were "strictly following") they managaed to design, manufacture and test a new missile. What an impressive speed of work :-)
Its a tomahawk cruise missile which is currently in the US naval inventory, fired from a VLS which is currently also serving in the navy. Its a no brainer about simple this is was. Probably a test fire to check all the sensor and systems for future upgrades
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 10:16
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Originally Posted by Torquelink
Given the size of Russia's economy (about the size of Spain's) and the success of Reagan's plan to outspend Gorbachev precipitating the collapse of the USSR, I would have thought that the best way of forcing Putin out of power would be for the US to ramp up military expenditure, forcing Putin and his cronies to follow suit until growing discontent from the increasingly impoverished populace finally caused him to be thrown out or to stand down?
Good analogy BUT it is wrong country with the debt issue.
https://usdebtclock.org/

US Debt is Ł23 trillion and rising, Currently 106% of US GDP and that based on 2017 figures. US will be paying more in interest than they are spending on defense budget. Debt levels are just going to get a whole lot worse than 110% of US economy, this doesn't account for the Ł14 trillion in personal debt or the $15 trillion in state and city debt.

Russian Debt is 13.5% of GDP or $250 billion, its Foreign reserves are $520 billion and it is running a $100 billion trade surplus a year.

Gold wise Russia has doubled its Gold holdings in 5 years. It holds 2207 tonnes, US holds 8133 tonnes, worth $102 billion and $380 billion respectively.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...gold-reserves/

Yup keep spouting how Reagan bankrupted the USSR but that was 30 plus years ago when US had a Budget surplus.

Russia / China / India / Brazil etc are doing less business in US dollar and there is less to borrow and countries are not buying US Debt, Russia had $174 billion plus in 2010, now it has less than $10 billion.

Debt reaches a level when you can no longer make repayments as it is eating up so much of income. Sadly US is 5 years away from that and unless they can do something drastic the implications are massive for everybody. Trump tactics of adding tarriffs to Chinese import is good for US Govt as it dampens demand plus more importantly the tariffs go direct to US treasury.

The idea that the US can just print and print money is unsustainable.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 16:44
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Originally Posted by racedo
The idea that the US can just print and print money is unsustainable.
Please tell the politicians in Washington that!

Will be interesting for future historians to look back 50, 100, 200 years hence and ponder the reasons for the downfall of the United States. "Spending the Soviet Union into collapse" may very well turn out to be our downfall as well (just took longer, and coupled with runaway spending in lots of other areas)
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 17:01
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People still want to lend money to the USA - not such a long line for roubles IMHO...................
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 17:22
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Originally Posted by rattman
Its a tomahawk cruise missile which is currently in the US naval inventory, fired from a VLS which is currently also serving in the navy. Its a no brainer about simple this is was. Probably a test fire to check all the sensor and systems for future upgrades
I know that. My post was rather sarcastic.
The US was since long ago breaching this treaty with at least 4 systems:
- MK-41 launch complexes in Romania and now in Poland that could launch Tomahawks (just proven)
- modernisation of SM-6 that could be launched from Aegis ashore
- long-range heavy strike drones also formally fall into the category of systems subject to this treay
- during some recent years in the DoD budget there is a special position concerning R&D on an advanced medium range missile

While there is no proof about the Russian ballistic missile. During the test it flew a bit shorter than 500 km.
When US experts were invited to examine it, nobody arrived. Absolutely the same as with "chemwep" in Syria, staged by "white helmets". When the Russians brought the children and their parents to the Hague and organized a press conference where "victims" (in obviously good health)explained in detail that they were threatened to participate in the show with toothpaste and foam, nobody of western media and coalition representatives arrived.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 19:38
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
People still want to lend money to the USA - not such a long line for roubles IMHO...................
China has dumped $80 billion this year in US treasuries and made it clear it will continue if trade war continues. China no longer buying US Soya, it used to be $30 billion, now its zero and US Govt having to buy it with borrowed money.

Great people want to lend you money but they want a return and repayment. The ban on Russia borrowing money now looks the most stupid decision ever.

Russia suffered a sharp recession and banned imports from those acting against its interests. It spent money on building up its own Agri sector to replace imports, sold down US treasuries by $180 billion, moved away from US$ in trade, bought Gold so even figure posted earlier today was superceded, as they bought 9 tonnes in July.

If you have more money in reserves than debt, a huge trade surplus etc then banks will lend to you. It just will not be US / US / Nato member banks but bearing in mind the steal of Libyan reserves by those same people then why would you want to. Far Eastern banks are happy to lend.

The ponzi scheme of western banking looks more and more shaky, question is what will be the trigger point that brings it down.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 06:12
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Originally Posted by A_Van
- MK-41 launch complexes in Romania and now in Poland that could launch Tomahawks (just proven)
- modernisation of SM-6 that could be launched from Aegis ashore
-While there is no proof about the Russian ballistic missile. During the test it flew a bit shorter than 500 km.
When US experts were invited to examine it, nobody arrived. Absolutely the same as with "chemwep" in Syria, staged by "white helmets". When the Russians brought the children and their parents to the Hague and organized a press conference where "victims" (in obviously good health)explained in detail that they were threatened to participate in the show with toothpaste and foam, nobody of western media and coalition representatives arrived.
Ah making stuff up. The aegis ashore cannot launch tomahawks, the russians were given the oppertunity to inspect it and didn't.

The Sm-6 is not armed with nukes so does not fall under inf even if the capability they are putting on it acutally works

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 08:32
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China may be dumping US dollars but the renminbi is down...................

As for deficits people who think that countries are run in the same basis as their own personal funds are always wringing their hands over nations doing the same .

The USA is the country of last resort in the financial system - it's where money flees to whenever and wherever there is a panic and I can't see that changing for years. Would you REALLY take your cash and invest in a Russian or Chinese Bank rather than an American one???
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 10:20
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The Chinese have been dumping US treasuries as a (token) retaliatory measure in the ongoing trade dispute. Given the entirety of their holdings the last they want is for the US economy to tank.

As for the collapse of the US and Russian economies, various commentators have been predicting this for years now. It has become quite a thing.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 10:37
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As the above poster says, given a choice in an economic crisis of putting your life savings into US Dollars, Roubles or Renminbi, which one do you think the majority of people would choose?
Judging by the amount of stinking rich Russians living in London and down here in Marbella, we can cross Roubles off the list pretty quickly.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 11:37
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
China may be dumping US dollars but the renminbi is down...................

As for deficits people who think that countries are run in the same basis as their own personal funds are always wringing their hands over nations doing the same .

The USA is the country of last resort in the financial system - it's where money flees to whenever and wherever there is a panic and I can't see that changing for years. Would you REALLY take your cash and invest in a Russian or Chinese Bank rather than an American one???
Er money rushes into Gold when there is a panic. A point gets reached when a country has so much debt it cannot service what it has, it has nothing to do with borrowing more it basically becomes incapable of servicing what they have, so any new borrowing starts to pay higher and higher interest. Govt could cut back spending but politically that is fraught with difficult. Currency then drops so imports become even more expensive and economy tanks into a recession.

I keep pointing to the way Russia has been buying gold, now double from 10 years ago and any $$$ earned on selling oil get used to buy Gold.

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 11:40
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Originally Posted by hunterboy
As the above poster says, given a choice in an economic crisis of putting your life savings into US Dollars, Roubles or Renminbi, which one do you think the majority of people would choose?
Judging by the amount of stinking rich Russians living in London and down here in Marbella, we can cross Roubles off the list pretty quickly.
I would choose Gold.

Rich Russians got caught with hand in cookie jar, grabbed their cash and became opponents of Putin, especially when they lodged hundreds of millions in Western banks.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 07:59
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"Er money rushes into Gold when there is a panic"

Some small investors run to gold - countries are far to large to do that -

Even for small investors gold pays no interest, cost (a lot ) of money to store, must be protected and is totally illiquid - try buying a new car with half a gold bar or a sack full of sovereigns................ emotional hangover TBH

At least in the sub-continent they turn it into jewelry so it has some use

And the US can always print more money to pay it debts in it's own money as long as people are willing to buy $ - which they do every time there is a panic
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 10:21
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
"Er money rushes into Gold when there is a panic"

Some small investors run to gold - countries are far to large to do that -

Even for small investors gold pays no interest, cost (a lot ) of money to store, must be protected and is totally illiquid - try buying a new car with half a gold bar or a sack full of sovereigns................ emotional hangover TBH

At least in the sub-continent they turn it into jewelry so it has some use

And the US can always print more money to pay it debts in it's own money as long as people are willing to buy $ - which they do every time there is a panic
Keep believing the economics of the US is different from Economic reality, it isn't.
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