'Eject' versus 'Bailout'
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Exactly the sort of question to which I don't know the answer hence wondered if anyone knew the veracity of the story. Might have been another type but I recall it as a Jag.
Wasn't Wyn Evans was it ? - seem to recall that's what I got told too
Little did they know that Wyn was not only Welsh, but spoke the language fluently. So he listened to this for a while, but when he paid for whatever it was he was buying he conversed with the shopkeeper in Welsh before 'rebriefing' the ignorant local yokels who'd been insulting the English!
The blasted Welsh
Ah yes. The oft repeated story of the Welsh only speaking their own language to annoy the English.
I used to spout the same old rubbish until I met and married a Welsh girl (first language Welsh) and realised that it is just how they speak. Much like the French speak French. Or the Spanish speak Spanish. Or... You get the idea.
In any other world that would be regarded as (not so) casual racism.
But please keep the stories coming.
BV
I used to spout the same old rubbish until I met and married a Welsh girl (first language Welsh) and realised that it is just how they speak. Much like the French speak French. Or the Spanish speak Spanish. Or... You get the idea.
In any other world that would be regarded as (not so) casual racism.
But please keep the stories coming.
BV
As a Civil Air Patrol Cadet in the mid 1960's I was provided a flight in a Lockheed T-33 for being the winner of the Annual Competition in my State.
During the brief prior to flight....I was told by the Pilot that upon his determining the need to eject he would say...."Eject...Eject...Eject!".
He then added that if I spoke after hearing that Command I would talking to myself.
How far back do you want to take this line of chat?
Also....just because they were trying to be polite by speaking in their native language....does not change their evaluation of the "English".
Am I right to believe it is actually the Cornish that are English?
During the brief prior to flight....I was told by the Pilot that upon his determining the need to eject he would say...."Eject...Eject...Eject!".
He then added that if I spoke after hearing that Command I would talking to myself.
How far back do you want to take this line of chat?
Also....just because they were trying to be polite by speaking in their native language....does not change their evaluation of the "English".
Am I right to believe it is actually the Cornish that are English?
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Nope, Steen? was the the person that took me up in a Jag.
As for Welsh, I did my eng training at St Athan and having quite a broad Cumbrian accident at the time, I was believed to be Welsh by the course and given the not so original nickname Taff...
Despite my remonstrations it remained and it turned out a blessing in disguise as i soon found out that as a "Welshman" one was preferred over the rest of the peasants by the local Rhondha Valley Commandos, something I took full advantage of...... Errm Boyo
As for Welsh, I did my eng training at St Athan and having quite a broad Cumbrian accident at the time, I was believed to be Welsh by the course and given the not so original nickname Taff...
Despite my remonstrations it remained and it turned out a blessing in disguise as i soon found out that as a "Welshman" one was preferred over the rest of the peasants by the local Rhondha Valley Commandos, something I took full advantage of...... Errm Boyo
Nutty.....you disguise the truth Sir.
Being the young naive Lad you were...you were the one that twas taken advantage of by the Commando's.....and you enjoyed every bit of it!
Being the young naive Lad you were...you were the one that twas taken advantage of by the Commando's.....and you enjoyed every bit of it!
This thread has drifted. Had Wyn been really Welsh, the 'rebriefing' would be a synonym for 'joining in'! BV, you have gone up in my estimation- snagging a Welsh girl; and Nutty... it's Rhondda ( Double d sounded like a soft th sound; and 'Valley' is superfluous) but close enough!
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Reject, eject.
In the early days of the RAF Britannia fleet the Captain’s pre take-off emergency briefing went something like this:-
“If any of us sees an engine failure or fire, or a major control malfunction before V1 he is to call “REJECT”. I will confirm by closing the throttles and you, Engineer, will select brake dwell on all engines and full reverse on the symmetrical remaining engines. You, Co-pilot will inform air traffic control and tell them to “Standby”. When the aircraft has come to a complete stop and the parking brake has been set we will deal with the problem. Any questions?”
When we became part of Strike Command the word came down that the word “REJECT” was not to be used in any RAF cockpit because of the risk of misunderstanding but the word “ABORT” was to be used instead. An ugly word but effective.
A further policy decision was then published that it was wrong for a Flight Engineer or a Co-pilot to issue an apparent instruction to a Captain and that in future he was to call out a short and accurate description of the symptoms only. Such as “Engine failure number 3”.
Many years later a well known Irish Nimrod Flight Engineer was handed a right bag of nails to sort out just short of V1 during his last simulator check before retirement and his call out was “Holy Mary Mother of God will you look at dat lot then!”. He passed the check.
I was rather taken a-back later when I started airline flying when I was briefed “Standard left. Did I miss anything?”
“If any of us sees an engine failure or fire, or a major control malfunction before V1 he is to call “REJECT”. I will confirm by closing the throttles and you, Engineer, will select brake dwell on all engines and full reverse on the symmetrical remaining engines. You, Co-pilot will inform air traffic control and tell them to “Standby”. When the aircraft has come to a complete stop and the parking brake has been set we will deal with the problem. Any questions?”
When we became part of Strike Command the word came down that the word “REJECT” was not to be used in any RAF cockpit because of the risk of misunderstanding but the word “ABORT” was to be used instead. An ugly word but effective.
A further policy decision was then published that it was wrong for a Flight Engineer or a Co-pilot to issue an apparent instruction to a Captain and that in future he was to call out a short and accurate description of the symptoms only. Such as “Engine failure number 3”.
Many years later a well known Irish Nimrod Flight Engineer was handed a right bag of nails to sort out just short of V1 during his last simulator check before retirement and his call out was “Holy Mary Mother of God will you look at dat lot then!”. He passed the check.
I was rather taken a-back later when I started airline flying when I was briefed “Standard left. Did I miss anything?”
OK, BV, believe what you will....
Wyn told me exactly how it was. But you can choose to disbelieve me if you will. He came from South Wales and was bloody cross about the way those Angelsey Welsh behaved. But that was some 44 years ago - probably before you were born - and of course times have changed.
Wyn told me exactly how it was. But you can choose to disbelieve me if you will. He came from South Wales and was bloody cross about the way those Angelsey Welsh behaved. But that was some 44 years ago - probably before you were born - and of course times have changed.
I always briefed non aircrew passengers, lucky enough to be scared by flying with me........ If I call eject, eject, eject.....if you hear the third one......you will be on your own!!
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Well as I’m here, prior to Tornado I always thought my feet passing his head was a good clue that I wasn’t happy.
When Tornado came in we started off being told that “Both” was the best selection, then, after “Whosh-Bang” pulled the handle when he thought he was going to die (can’t think of a better reason to pull it) we were ORDERED to select Rear, (nobody took any notice of that)
All of that said, in my aircraft it was EJECT EJECT EJECT. Unless you met a Jaguar going the other way, in which case it was “Hi Dim” and pull !
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When Tornado came in we started off being told that “Both” was the best selection, then, after “Whosh-Bang” pulled the handle when he thought he was going to die (can’t think of a better reason to pull it) we were ORDERED to select Rear, (nobody took any notice of that)
All of that said, in my aircraft it was EJECT EJECT EJECT. Unless you met a Jaguar going the other way, in which case it was “Hi Dim” and pull !
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Last edited by Odanrot; 20th Aug 2019 at 21:52. Reason: Fat fingers
BEags
You're right about one thing. Your friend’s story does predate me. By a year or two.
Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.
The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.
I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?
Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.
It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.
In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.
Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.
BV
🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).
Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.
The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.
I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?
Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.
It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.
In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.
Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.
BV
🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).
Last edited by Bob Viking; 21st Aug 2019 at 04:41.
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You're right about one thing. Your friend’s story does predate me. By a year or two.
Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.
The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.
I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?
Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.
It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.
In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.
Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.
BV
🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).
Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.
The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.
I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?
Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.
It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.
In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.
Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.
BV
🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).
This is amazing thread drift, but I visited the Valley area a couple of years ago for the first time, with these tales front and centre in my head. We stayed in a local hotel , the name of which I could not pronounce, run by a very local lady. We came back to the hotel one afternoon to find the landlady at reception speaking Welsh to another visitor. When they saw us walk in they switched to English.
Anyway, Bob, what I did find amusing was listening to 'Jones the Motor' (as he was nicknamed), who ran the little garage in the village, conversing with one of the locals in Welsh. Except that every so often a technical term was in English. So there would be lots of lilting Welsh, then 'carburettor' or 'fuel pump' or whatever. Someone rather unkindly said that was because the Welsh didn't have words for anything modern, such as 'wheel' or 'fire' - a bit harsh, I thought.
Jones the Motor was a star though - one Friday afternoon the throttle cable in my MG Midget failed. I thought I'd have to wait until the following day and get a lift to Llanfair PG for a new one, which would have ruined my weekend in London. But after a few minutes of delving in his parts shed, out he came with the necessary!
Do many people stationed at Valley for any length of time make any effort to learn some Welsh? I certainly would have done.
Personally I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Valley, although the winter weather could be rather bleak.
Back to the thread about bang seats - I had a fascinating time visiting Martin-Baker last week. 'Eject' was the word everyone used, rather than 'Bailout'. Watching the 2 Meteors flying in idyllic weather was the icing on the cake! But the new F-35 seat and the clever auto-eject system was extremely interesting. The time between ejection and parachute deploy has been really cut down since the days of the old Mk2 'gunpowder' seat we had in the Hunter 6/9 and even surpasses the Mk10.
But why on earth didn't the RAF specify ejector seats for the Grob Prefect? Most other customers do..... If, perish the thought, there's ever a fatal accident due to no bang seats, heads should surely roll at the MoD!
Jones the Motor was a star though - one Friday afternoon the throttle cable in my MG Midget failed. I thought I'd have to wait until the following day and get a lift to Llanfair PG for a new one, which would have ruined my weekend in London. But after a few minutes of delving in his parts shed, out he came with the necessary!
Do many people stationed at Valley for any length of time make any effort to learn some Welsh? I certainly would have done.
Personally I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Valley, although the winter weather could be rather bleak.
Back to the thread about bang seats - I had a fascinating time visiting Martin-Baker last week. 'Eject' was the word everyone used, rather than 'Bailout'. Watching the 2 Meteors flying in idyllic weather was the icing on the cake! But the new F-35 seat and the clever auto-eject system was extremely interesting. The time between ejection and parachute deploy has been really cut down since the days of the old Mk2 'gunpowder' seat we had in the Hunter 6/9 and even surpasses the Mk10.
But why on earth didn't the RAF specify ejector seats for the Grob Prefect? Most other customers do..... If, perish the thought, there's ever a fatal accident due to no bang seats, heads should surely roll at the MoD!
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Aug 2019 at 09:58.
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I used to tell my Bulldog students that I would say "JUMP JUMP JUMP!" but if they ever said "Pardon?" I had the word JUMP written on the soles of my boots.
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.
I've personally seen it happen in both Welsh (I have Welsh family) and Scots Gaelic communities (also an officially recognised language BTW) . People conversing in English until someone they don't know appears, when they switch to the other language. It's as much about ensuring privacy as anything else.
Dave
According to wikipedia (did you really think I wouldn’t check with the online font of all knowledge before making such a claim) I am right with regards to the recognition of the Welsh language. That’s why I wrote it that way.
BV
BV