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New book - 'Red 5' - An investigation ...

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New book - 'Red 5' - An investigation ...

Old 15th Aug 2019, 16:53
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New book - 'Red 5' - An investigation ...

....
‘Red 5 - An investigation into the death of Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham’

A new book by David Hill, author of “Their Greatest Disgrace” (Chinook ZD576) and more recently “Breaking the Military Covenant” (Who speaks for the Dead ?)

Now available on Kindle for £3.99 (or similar in $US) from the usual watercourse. All proceeds to charity as usual.

The book explains in compelling detail, how this fatal accident came to happen and how Martin-Baker came to be prosecuted. It tells how the MoD allowed maintenance techniques to develop, that were specifically prohibited by Martin-Baker. It shows that the MoD declined to acquire simple seat modifications that would reduce or remove risk to aircrew. It shows the long trail of evidence (from 1952) which the MoD denied ever having received, which proved M-B was in the clear.

The rest of this sorry ‘judicial process’ dismissed or ignored the evidence, and Martin-Baker and their defence lawyers inexplicably failed to use it. To nearly everyone’s benefit there was thus no trial to expose and record these repeat mis-deeds by the MoD.

There are as usual, no explanations so far forthcoming from the many agencies complicit in diverting attention from the truth and perverting the course of justice, after yet another tragic and avoidable service death.

I respectfully suggest ‘Red 5’ should be compulsory reading for everyone who bravely risks their valuable backsides on any Martin-Baker ejector seat that has been procured and ‘serviced’ under the auspices of the UK Ministry of Defence.

LFH
....
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 18:27
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Good post LFH. That the MOD lies, obfuscates, and misleads should come as no surprise to those who have read the numerous fatal air accident threads on this forum. That other agencies and services should render themselves complicit in the MOD's misdeeds raises questions that go far beyond the lack of airworthiness of Sean Cunningham's aircraft and ejection seat.

There is something rotten in the state. If it can pervert justice to the extent that David Hill's book indicates then anyone can be its next target. MBA may be content to take this hit. After all, they remain at Chalgrove selling their ejection seats. Does that make it right?
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 21:18
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I'd still like to know why M-B were happy to take the rap when everything pointed to them being in the clear.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 22:05
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Guaranteed future military contracts, possibly?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 06:34
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Were they not guaranteed anyway? Does anyone know what proportion of the global off take goes to the RAF/ MoD?
I would have thought that failure to stick up for oneself was pretty risky.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 07:22
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.........
Orca -
Does anyone know what proportion of the global off take goes to the RAF/ MoD ?
From the M-B website ... News & Events - Martin-Baker

"Martin-Baker has over 17,000 ejection seats in service around the world today, fitted to 54 different aircraft types in 84 different countries. These programmes have consisted of both newly designed seats as well as seats already in production being fitted to brand-new aircraft, but also being fitted to existing aircraft."

500th F-35 seat delivered in March. 2000th seat for JPATS (T-6) last December

I don't think MoD gets a look in with those numbers. They could always try sulking and buy elsewhere - I'm told the Russians do very good ejector seats these days.

So it's still a mystery - or a conspiracy ....

LFH
........
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 07:32
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Originally Posted by Lordflasheart
.........
Orca -

From the M-B website ... News & Events - Martin-Baker

"Martin-Baker has over 17,000 ejection seats in service around the world today, fitted to 54 different aircraft types in 84 different countries. These programmes have consisted of both newly designed seats as well as seats already in production being fitted to brand-new aircraft, but also being fitted to existing aircraft."

500th F-35 seat delivered in March. 2000th seat for JPATS (T-6) last December

I don't think MoD gets a look in with those numbers. They could always try sulking and buy elsewhere - I'm told the Russians do very good ejector seats these days.

So it's still a mystery - or a conspiracy ....

LFH
........
Even more mysterious why they wouldn't defend their reputation of the MoD is a minor customer. Waiting to see if a gong or seat in the House of Lords is announced.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 08:49
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Reputational damage is a BIG thing in the corporate world. Today, with the impact of social media, it can be highly damaging commercially when the tales hit the www.

It would seem that this was not an issue for MB nor its legal representatives.

As has been said before, quite odd indeed.

Perhaps they are happy to sit back on the "lessons will be learnt" mantra and keep the $$$ coming in?
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 10:54
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Chalgrove Airfield was planned to be given over completely to residential development for 3500 homes prior to the HSE v MBA court case. Subsequent to the case this has been modified to 3000 homes and MBA can remain on site.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...of_the_land_at

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17...-be-submitted/

https://www.slideshare.net/Chalgrove...october-update

Last edited by Chugalug2; 17th Aug 2019 at 11:07. Reason: Additional details and link
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 17:24
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Now thrive the armourers.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 07:43
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lb, I would strongly advise such armourers to double check the length of the spoon handle with which they might have supped when reaching any solemn and binding undertakings, as well as the material it was made of. Wooden spoons don't count, and hence would render any such agreement null and void.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 10:45
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Martin-Baker and London Chalgrove Airport

....
Martin-Baker and London Chalgrove Airport ?


Blackfriar -
Waiting to see if a gong or seat in the House of Lords is announced.
In 2016 (as Chugalug kindly observes above) ownership of Chalgrove transferred from MoD to the Homes & Communities Agency who seemed set to evict Martin-Baker in favour of 3500 homes. On 1st Jan 2018, right in the middle of the trial, the HCA was re-titled Homes England, with the same address, Chairman and CEO etc.

By March 2018 after M-B unexpectedly reversed their plea and were fined £1.1m, Homes England were publicly consulting on their new (ie modified) plan. This included Chalgrove New Market Town, reduced to only 3000 homes and three schools on part of the airfield.

More relevant to this thread, Martin-Baker would be allowed to keep part of the airfield, and someone would build an entirely new runway (26 – approx 5400 ft) on the north side of the field.

So there might be no gongs or peerages for a year or so, but Martin-Baker would get the benefit of security of tenure for their long-established factory and a brand new runway. Perhaps spitting up £1.1 mil and keeping schtumm was a small price to pay.

https://www.chalgroveairfield.com/en/homepage.php

For more detail - https://estatecreate-storage.s3.amaz...vD2h384xFrE%3D

Caveats - As far as I can see, all this ‘development’ is still only at proposal and consultation stage. No actual planning application has yet been submitted and it’s currently stalled while the ‘emerging’ South Oxon DC Local Plan is with the Housing Minister for approval - Its ‘progress’ is shown here - Local Plan 2034 - South Oxfordshire District Council

Would a brand new runway get past the public (who don’t seem to have noticed it yet) or past the South Oxfordshire Planning Committee or even a public inquiry ? Would the Minister dare to call it in and give it forced approval ?

If there were to be no new runway, Martin-Baker would presumably want to retain use of the current runway 31, not just for their two Meteors, but for their corporate operations and for customers. What leverage then ?

LFH
.......
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 11:49
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While we await the outcome of the ponderous machinations of Local Government, as featured above in LFH's post, a reminder of the OP and an unapologetic plug :-

Amazon Amazon
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 17:59
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Does David Hill credit the service inquiry (SI) report of the same accident anywhere in his book (available to read on the Gov.uk website)? I ask this because the introduction in his book is, more or less, a word-for-word copy of paras 1.3.1-1.3.4 of the SI report (Narrative of Events]. And without Hill’s acknowledgement of that source, he is committing plagiarism and possibly in breach of copyright law.



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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 00:03
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Homelover

In fact, of the 5-page Introduction (available to view free in its entirety on Amazon), only the first three short paragraphs paraphrase the SI report. It is essential scene-setting information, which must be factual. None of the following 4 pages remotely resembles anything in the report - it is a narrative on the approach to the book, it's structure and a brief summary of the issues raised.

The Service Inquiry is cited as the ‘main public record’. If one were to deviate from this, it would risk misrepresenting the factual events of 8 November 2011; so it is ‘fair use’. The Panel is described as having done an ‘excellent job’ and having produced a 'notable work'. A link is provided to the report, and the reader encouraged to read it. On the other hand, one theme in the book is MoD misrepresenting the facts to courts, the Prosecution, police, family and media; and refusing to correct itself in the face of written, verbal and video evidence. (This applies more so to the Prosecution; the book is relatively kind to MoD and acknowledges the difficulties faced by the Panel).

Across the trilogy, MoD placed only one caveat. That, to cite/quote an investigation and report arising from the Sea King ASaC Mk7 mid-air of 2003, the report must first be sought and provided under Freedom of Information. (Letter D/Min(AF)/AR MC03390/2013, 4 September 2013). The request was made, and MoD denied all knowledge of both investigation and report. Legal advice was sought, which was that one was free to quote from the report. The legal sources are acknowledged. Presumably, if MoD wanted to object to this it would have done so when the book was submitted; but that would mean having to acknowledge the events and the content of the report, opening itself to the possibility of legal action.

I hope this allays your fears.

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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 00:24
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2
lb, I would strongly advise such armourers to double check the length of the spoon handle with which they might have supped when reaching any solemn and binding undertakings, as well as the material it was made of. Wooden spoons don't count, and hence would render any such agreement null and void.

Damn beat me to it.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 07:40
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So this is what the apologists are reduced to? Complaining of plagiarism? Tuc has spelled out the literary and legal issues, so I won't repeat them other than to suggest that the apologists club together and raise four quid to read the whole book rather than just the first few free preview pages on Amazon.

That raises a wider question, the motivation of those who have consistently opposed those seeking reform of UK Military Aviation Regulation and Accident Investigation on each and every fatal accident thread on this Military Aviation Forum of the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. Ours is to prevent avoidable accidents. What's theirs?
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 09:59
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Plagiarism - Clearly and obviously the words are not passed off as the author's own. The Service Inquiry report is referenced on page 2, as the first of 150 citations. One would have to be pretty dense to attempt plagiarism while in the same breath providing a download link to the source document.

Copyright - Is dealt with by the concept of 'fair dealing' (or 'use' - when dealing with Amazon one has to use their terms). For example, the 'reporting of current events' is an exemption to copyright. (Source - UK Intellectual Property Rights Office). The question becomes; at the time of writing was the issue 'current'? Yes, if one measures currency by media reporting, public interest/comment on the matter, legal proceedings, the ongoing links to other accidents or societal risk.

Would a fair minded person resort to such an attack when the real issue is why Sean Cunningham died in an accident that would have been avoided by simply following the instructions issued by Martin-Baker? Which, as I said, MoD denied the existence of, despite verbal, written and video evidence. As a past Service Inquiry President Homelover, you will know you have an enduring duty to report the emergence of evidence which would have affected your report. (Source - MoD). And did MoD pass this 'new' evidence to the CPS, HSE or police? That question has been asked of all concerned, and none will answer it. However, the HSE did reply to a FOI request earlier this year, confirming it had no evidence whatsover to support its allegations.

£4 to charity, and you could read all about it. Or I dare say the author might be persuaded to provide a free copy - pdf, Kindle or paperback?
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 10:43
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Homelover

You might want to familiarise yourself with the concepts of 'fair use' and 'reporting of current affairs'. As for referencing, unless he's writing for academia, WGAF what standards he uses? It's clear what his source is, and no reasonable person is going to argue that he's plagiarised anything.

Tucumseh

Surprised to hear that you submitted a draft copy to MoD. To what end?
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 11:11
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Tuc. No thanks. And I wasn’t a SI president. Get your facts right, otherwise your credibility begins to suffer. I would’ve thought facts were pretty important for someone who crusades to ‘uncover the truth’ or ‘speak for the dead’ or whatever tag line you are working to this week??
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