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Typhoon Upgrades

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Typhoon Upgrades

Old 9th Aug 2019, 19:03
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Typhoon Upgrades

https://www.c4isrnet.com/global/euro...ensor-upgrade/

Royal Air Force Typhoon jets to receive key sensor upgrade
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 20:28
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Say what you will about the early years of Typhoon but right now it is fielding ASRAAM, AMRAAM, Meteor, Paveway 4, Brimstone 2, Storm Shadow and the Gun!

The go to Combat Air platform right now.
It has been a long road for the jet but finally it is paying off.

Mr Vice.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 20:33
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Mr V

I give it one day until we get any or all of the following:

It isnít as pretty as the Lightning/Phantom/Buccaneer/Harrier.

Just think how many Hunters you could have for the same money.

Waste of money.

White elephant.

A couple of Vulcans would be just as good.

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

BV

Having said that, I may have staved them off just by posting this.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 21:45
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Did the conformal fuel tanks get binned for good?
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 07:37
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Bob Viking , your sneering deprecation of your seniors does you absolutely no favours.

Typhoon suffered only from protracted development, but ever since it entered service it has been a superlative aircraft, which finally gave the RAF a first rate fighter aircraft. Since then it has also proved itself in the air to ground role. I recall an IoM towline trip working with a pair pre-production Eurofighters; used to the rather sedate performance of the Tornado F3 when leaving the tanker with full tanks, the request from the Eurofighter to climb into a block of airspace at around FL500 on leaving the tanker was quite a surprise, as was its subsequent departure and impressive climb.

One hopes that the niggardly procurement policies of earlier years, leading to the nonsense of 'fleets within fleets' will not be foist upon the Typhoon and that all aircraft will receive the 'sensor upgrades'.

Those who would view earlier generation aircraft through rose-tinted spectacles might care to remember:

Vulcan - revolutionary in its day, particularly in its B2 form. But the EW suite was a complete joke and was never adequately upgraded. The AAR system was allowed to deteriorate, as was the conventional bombing system. When South Atlantic War came along, a frantic scramble and the raiding of some museums and station scrap heaps provided just enough to make the aircraft adequately capable. EW kit had to be begged and borrowed from other fleets, as had the single INS.

Lightning - again, revolutionary in its day with shattering performance. But it suffered from short range and for many years lacked a head sector capability. Overland, the limitations of a pulse radar against low flying targets, particularly in an EW environment, were only too clear.

Phantom - the UK's decision to use the RR Spey caused huge problems in the early days of RAF service. But it became a very good multi-role platform, although the radar required considerable skill from the navigator and the aircraft itself had some significant vices at high AoA. Then in later years the air to ground role was virtually abandoned until air to ground strafe was brought back in to the inventory after the South Atlantic War.

Harrier - again, another revolutionary UK aircraft. But it required very high levels of skill to operate and until the GR3, lacked sufficient thrust on many occasions. Later marks bore little resemblance to earlier marks, but the ultimate F/A 2 with AMRAAM, Blue Fox and Link16 was a superb ship borne interceptor which should still be in service.

Jaguar - early versions were woefully underpowered and the cockpit ergonomics were pretty lethal. But it gave a very good account of itself over Iraq, both during the war and afterwards in armed policing; the ultimate version had an excellent avionic system but the lack of thrust was never really resolved.

Hunter - underpowered and with inadequate fuel in its early versions and with significant gun firing problems in the Avon powered version until a somewhat primitive solution was provided. It came of age in its F6 variant, but its air to air role was compromised by the lack of any missile capability and a primitive radar ranging system.

Buccaneer - only came into RAF service after cancellation of TSR-2 and F-111. But the crews worked wonders with such a very demanding aircraft; had the radar and nav/attack systems been upgraded to Tornado standard it would have been exceptional. During my AAR sorties working with mixed Buccaneer / Tornado formations during GW1, the benefits of the Buccaneer's fuel capacity were abundantly clear!

Tornado - an excellent air to ground aircraft which was continually upgraded over the years, providing the RAF with superb service. Whereas the Tornado ADV was an utter joke in its early days. The F2 was seriously underpowered and couldn't meet the spec with more than 6 missiles. Radar of the 'Blue Circle' variety was initially quite appalling. But over the years the aircraft was developed into an exceptional air to air platform, with the final iteration of Foxhunter, AMRAAM, Link 16 and cunning SOPs. Retired prematurely though.

But it seems that the painful lessons of previous years have been learned as regards Typhoon, which just gets better and better. Particularly when operating in concert with F-35B, I gather!

Last edited by BEagle; 10th Aug 2019 at 07:50.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 09:51
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BV

I enjoyed your post. I thought you summed up the majority of PPRuNe military posters quite accurately, one in particular.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:03
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BEagle

My post was intended to be semi light hearted.

Your inability to understand how some of your posts come across as condescending and offensive does you no favours either.

You know I enjoy our sparring but neither of us should consider ourselves immune from criticism.

BV
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:15
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Still no AESA ?

...
Recent headline .... "Captor-E on the horizon."

Bone question ... "Can Captor-M see that far ?"



....
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:31
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Plus: IFF will now consider EU airplanes hostile.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:32
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Beags

If the RAF (not procurers - nothing to do with them) decides to have fleets within fleets, I would have a little more confidence than previously. I recall one of the first posts they advertised way back when it was EFA was a Configuration Control Manager. Other aircraft offices at the time were being actively stripped of funding, as it was considered a waste of money. But the now jobless CCMs from those offices couldn't apply for EFA, as they'd graded it 3 grades higher - a good sign in away, but tempting fate. Nevertheless, there was an understanding lacking in other parts of MoD.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 11:35
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I think Bob V was having a quiet shot at some of the normal reactions on here................. I thought he was spot on - in a humorous fashion.............
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 17:38
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RAF Typhoons are now pretty much split into two variants "Tranche 1" jets which are Air-Air only and the Tranche 2 and 3 aircraft which are now a common standard known as "P3E" software which are fully multi-role.

The fleets within fleets problem has mostly gone away. A frontline Squadron is equipped with P3E standard jets.

There are a great deal of weapons and sensors for a new JP to Typhoon to get their head around.

Mr Vice.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 19:29
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I give it one day until we get any or all of the following:

It isn’t as pretty as the Lightning/Phantom/Buccaneer/Harrier.

Just think how many Hunters you could have for the same money.

Waste of money.

White elephant.

A couple of Vulcans would be just as good.

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

BV

Having said that, I may have staved them off just by posting this.

One you missed: “It would be even better with a navigator”

Which of course it would!

Last edited by Timelord; 10th Aug 2019 at 19:45.
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 18:44
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I was surprised to learn today that some of the early Typhoons have already been 'reduced to produce', ie scrapped.
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 19:10
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Bob Viking , your sneering deprecation of your seniors does you absolutely no favours.
But he wasn't wrong!

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Old 11th Aug 2019, 19:11
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Why are the Tranche 1 Typhoons unable to be updated ? What exactly makes it so prohibitive ?
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 21:47
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Originally Posted by phil9560 View Post
Why are the Tranche 1 Typhoons unable to be updated ? What exactly makes it so prohibitive ?
Physical differences between the 3 different build tranches, Tranche 1 Typhoons are significantly different enough internally to Tranche 2/3 that upgrade further than the current Tranche 1 Block 5 (which does include air-to-ground capability, contrary to what some folk believe) is not viable. This is purely from memory so may well not be 'totally' accurate, but I understand that the internal avionics racks/bulkheads, amongst other things, are where the issue arises...

-RP
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Old 11th Aug 2019, 22:54
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Ah yes.I thought it may be a modular thing.Thanks.
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Old 12th Aug 2019, 07:39
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BV
I think thatís what you call Ďa biteí !!

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Old 12th Aug 2019, 08:11
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
I was surprised to learn today that some of the early Typhoons have already been 'reduced to produce', ie scrapped.
Twin seat T1 variants if I recall
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