Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

RAF FLIGHT JACKET

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF FLIGHT JACKET

Old 3rd Aug 2019, 19:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,536
Likes: 0
Received 40 Likes on 27 Posts
The jacket may be licensed by the RAF, but surely the Queen's Crown copywrite is held by a higher authority? I believe this is why the England Cricket Team badged their kit with a Baronet's coronet rather than the royal crown in order to be able to sell replica merchandise with the same badge applied.
Wensleydale is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 06:48
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh, good god!

Are you all that shallow that you need to get so uptight about a bit of embroidery.... There are real issues in the world, perhaps diverting your outrage to those may be a better use of time effort and resources.

i literally could not care if every other person was wearing wings, brevets or surplus uniform. I am confident enough in myself to not have to invest my entire self worth in a piece of material.

heights good is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 07:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,783
Received 257 Likes on 103 Posts
Award of the RAF Flying Badge is made only upon completion of an extremely demanding course of flying training, which will take many years under the present chaos. It is hardly a 'bit of embroidery'...

Some years ago, one of our Sqn Ldr Spec Aircrew navigators obtained a name badge for his airshow lady friend, which included the RAF Flying Badge. She would then strut around in an RAF flying suit with Sqn Ldr rank braid and this name badge... I was at an airshow at one stateside venue, which was most pleasant. Amongst our US aircrew visitors was 'Killer', a short, rather punchy 'fightergator' who instructed baby navs on the T-43 and who had a wicked sense of humour. After chatting with him for a few minutes, he asked me "Where's your AC (Aircraft Commander)?". "I'm the AC", I told him. "No, the female major", he queried. After I explained the situation, his previous humour evaporated. "Wearing something to which you're not entitled is bad enough, but lying to a brother aviator, that's unforgiveable!", he growled.
BEagle is online now  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 08:04
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: York
Posts: 517
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by MPN11
WHAT are ‘they’ thinking of, approving this artificial tat?
"Kerching"
muppetofthenorth is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 08:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
Just a spot of Sunday morning ‘old man’ pedantry...

[pedant on] It should be “RAF Flying Badges” as there is more than one for all Aircrew. The Pilot’s Flying Badge has two wings and the other types of Aircrew have one (Observer, Navigator, Air Gunner, Air Engineer, Air Signaller, etc...), which in 2003 was amalgamated into one Flying Badge - the Weapon System Officer (WSO) for Officer Aircrew and the Weapon System Operator (WSOp) for Non-Commissioned Aircrew (NCA). There are others too, for ground-branch Airborne Specialists like Airborne Image Analyst (IA), Airborne Technician (AT) and Fighter Controller (FC), plus also the Parachute Jump Instructor (PJI) who were given Sovereign approval over 70 years ago to be “Honorary Aircrew”. All of this is swept up in Queen’s Regulations (QRs).

As for the word “Brevet” this has for some time been misused by the ill-informed (including some in the RAF). It is actually a French word meaning certificate or diploma and originally to get one’s Brevet meant getting the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) Aviator’s Certificate or Military Flying Course Completion Certificate. Unfortunately, as you received your Certificate at the same time as your Flying Badge then some individuals got a bit confused. The French still use the word Brevet for their flying certificates - in their Brevet de Base de Pilote d'Avion, which is a basic Private Pilot’s Licence. Here is a picture:



This is one of the very first Brevets:



So:

1. Never The RAF Flying Badge, but just The Pilot’s Flying Badge.
2. Never a Brevet, which is a certificate, and always a Flying Badge (unless some muppet has got it wrong in a document, which happens from time to time!).

Sunday morning history lesson ends... [pedant off]
Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 09:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 831
Received 98 Likes on 51 Posts
Originally Posted by heights good
Oh, good god!

Are you all that shallow that you need to get so uptight about a bit of embroidery.... There are real issues in the world, perhaps diverting your outrage to those may be a better use of time effort and resources.

i literally could not care if every other person was wearing wings, brevets or surplus uniform. I am confident enough in myself to not have to invest my entire self worth in a piece of material.


Do you not think that the uniform symbolises something important, and that it should be accorded respect? A squadron standard or regimental colour is just “a bit of embroidery “ but is accorded such reverence that even the Monarch bows to it.

Timelord is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 09:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,318
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Oh come on.
I bought a set of RAF wings at Duxford.
They sell them in the shop!
Sewed `em onto an olive green MA1 - along with the squadron patches, and jet patches of the lot I went for two fast jet jollys with.
I quite deliberately put the squadron patches in the wrong place.
On the arms.
So that when some irate punter comes up and calls me a walt, I can explain why.
tartare is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 09:55
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,333
Received 80 Likes on 32 Posts
Originally Posted by Timelord
Do you not think that the uniform symbolises something important, and that it should be accorded respect? A squadron standard or regimental colour is just “a bit of embroidery “ but is accorded such reverence that even the Monarch bows to it.
Absolutely, but a copy of a flying badge placed on a spotters jacket is something different I would offer? Indeed, if it puts the RAF up front and centre in the public’s mind, then great. Likewise, I have no issue with those that fly RAF Ensigns at various old airfields. As long as it all done respectfully and definitely not pretending to be someone they are not. There are 3 Walter Mitty examples in the links below that the USA would call ‘stolen valour’ and we should do so too:

This idiot pretending to be a pilot - who actually ended up falsifying flight tests!
https://thewaltercumpershunterclub.w...esley-tierney/

This idiot who pretended to be a Tornado nav!
https://thewaltercumpershunterclub.w.../glen-holness/

This idiot who wore a DFC and AFC to his wedding as an ex-supplier JNCO!
https://thewaltercumpershunterclub.w...n-raf-bloater/
Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 10:43
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,475
Received 2,599 Likes on 1,101 Posts
yikes

https://www.sloganite.com/products/p...iABEgJsCvD_BwE
NutLoose is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 10:48
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,475
Received 2,599 Likes on 1,101 Posts
At the end of the day its a bit of cloth, it's nothing to get heated up about, those that earned it know. The saddest thing i saw was when people started sowing wings on wooly pullies..
NutLoose is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 10:48
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,783
Received 257 Likes on 103 Posts
Well, Corporal Clott , the certificate in my first logbook reads:

'This is to CERTIFY that in accordance with QR and ACI paragraph J727, Flying Officer (BEagle) is qualified to wear the Royal Air Force Flying Badge with effect from 16 Aug 74'. It was signed by the Chief Flying Instructor of the Royal Air College.
By the way, the Brevet de Base and the Brevet du pilot planeur are both now issued as a Modular LAPL.

Nut Loose, as you've never qualified as a military pilot, it's hardly surprising that you don't understand the emotions behind people's outrage at the wearing of the RAF Flying Badge by those not entitled.

The sewing of the badge on the NATO pullover actually started as a joke in 1977 or thereabouts. The Pilot Leader on 617 Sqn at Scampton had a wicked sense of humour and suggested it to some air wheel, who took him seriously and so we ended up with the absurdity of the cloth moth on a woolly pully.

Not as good a spoof as the infamous 'Sweater cashmere with moleskin facings' alternative Officers' No.5 mess kit which appeared in 1980-ish thanks to some wag on 115 Sqn who had amended various tailors' price lists in the OM at the aerodromes where they were flying calibration trips. Quite a few folk were taken in as the amendments were really rather authentic!
BEagle is online now  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 10:48
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 77
Posts: 3,896
Received 16 Likes on 4 Posts
That RAF bloke reminds me of the tubby types who used to come into my militaria shop and start looking at badges and ask if I had an SAS beret badge as they had lost theirs. Or the others with similarly impressive waistlines who told me they had been in the services, but with much winking and nose tapping told me they weren't allowed to speak about it!

Interesting error in the article which implies that only officers can be awarded the DFC as "only officers are pilots in the RAF". NCO aircrew can be awarded the DFC - does anyone have an example?
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 10:51
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,475
Received 2,599 Likes on 1,101 Posts
Quote:'This is to CERTIFY that in accordance with QR and ACI paragraph J727, Flying Officer (BEagle) is qualified to wear the Royal Air Force Flying Badge with effect from 16 Aug 74'. It was signed by the Chief Flying Instructor of the Royal Air College.
but the punter in the street isn't signed up to QR's so it is meaningless.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 12:56
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
BEagle

I suggest that your Certificate is wrong as this is QR206 - there is no higher Authority than HMTQ:

206. Flying Badges - wearing of.
Flying badges are divided into two categories, those in current issue, for which aircrew are qualified under the terms of paras J727 and 728 and those no longer issued, for which members of the RAF qualified under regulations in force from time to time.

These badges are:
(a) Current issued: Pilot, Weapons Systems Officer (WSO), Weapons Systems Operator (WSOp), Fighter Controller (FC), Airborne Technician (AT), The Preliminary Flying Badge (Pilot), UAS personnel only. See para 728.

​​(b) Previously in issue: Navigator(N), Air Electronics Officer(AE), Air Electronics Operator(AE), Air Engineer(E), Air Signaller(S), Air Loadmaster(LM), Air Observer (O), Air Bomber (B), Wireless Operator (air) (S), Wireless Operator Mechanic (air) (S), Meteorological Air Observer (M), Observer (radio) (RO), Air Gunner (AG), The Preliminary Flying Badge (Navigator), The Preliminary Flying Badge (Signaller), The Preliminary Flying Badge (Engineer), The Preliminary Flying Badge (Gunner)
No where can I see “The RAF Flying Badge”??? All I can see is “Pilot” under “Flying Badges”? So I suspect your Course Completion Certificate is wrong, just like others have been with the term “Brevet”?
Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
Of course, it is not just Flying Badges on the wooly-pully these days. There are also badges worn on sleeves of woolly pullies for Bomb Disposal, Parachute Wings, Parachute ‘light bulb’ (rarely seen as many incorrectly wear the wings instead - including some very senior officers), Commando Dagger, Mountain Rescue, Aero Medics/Nurses, Air Stewards/Cabin Crew Voluntary Bandsman and Marksman.
Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,783
Received 257 Likes on 103 Posts
No, Corporal Clott , this was not a mere 'course completion ceritifcate', it was the official certificate granting permission to wear the RAF Flying Badge which was in effect in 1974....
BEagle is online now  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:31
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: humzaland
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A modern invention BEagle. A little earlier, all I got from the same establishment was a F414A saying that I was a Proficient U/T Pilot with a White rating.
binbrook is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:38
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by BEagle
No, Corporal Clott , this was not a mere 'course completion ceritifcate', it was the official certificate granting permission to wear the RAF Flying Badge which was in effect in 1974....
No, BEagle there is no such thing as “The RAF Flying Badge” - which one were you authorised to wear? Or were you incorrectly dressed all of those years? [joke]



Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:42
  #39 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,561
Received 402 Likes on 210 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
At the end of the day its a bit of cloth, it's nothing to get heated up about, those that earned it know. The saddest thing i saw was when people started sowing wings on wooly pullies..
Sad or not, that was official RAF policy.

Did any of those sown wings take root and grow, btw? My wooly jumper got a bit grubby at times, but never that deep....
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 14:25
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Age: 61
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Corporal Clott
this is QR206
It would appear then, that QR 206 is in error since it fails to mention in Para b the badge for Air Quartermater (QM).
ExAscoteer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.