Two german Eurofighters have crashed

[Distant Voice]

And yet, just 2 weeks after the 2018 SS was issued, bingo - an Airprox involving a Typhoon. The irony being, that time, it was RAF on RAF - tho it was traffic out of Humberside! Maybe a gentle nudge by the Fates ahead of something else? I hope not......... H 'n' H

It's even worse. At the time the SS was signed there had been two recent Class B near misses involving Lossiemouth Typhoons and passenger carrying civil aircraft. One on 14 June 2017, involving a Jetstream 41 out of Aberdeen and the other on 25 August 2017, again out of Aberdeen, involving a Saab 2000. The Duty Holder Concept, as it has become known, is not fit for purpose. The person responsible for meeting the operational objectives also determines when a platform is ALARP. Whilst Duty Holders can be called on to defend their SS in a court of law, in the event of an accident, that has never happened. All attempts to get the Moray Firth Tornado collision case to court has been thwarted by the Scottish legal system. Unlike England and Wales, where such an event would trigger an inquest, Fatal Accidents Inquiries in Scotland for military accidents were not mandatory before June 2017; and even now the new law is open to interpretation.

DV

[Homelover]

Oh, you were being facetious Jimmy, I thought you were just being a c*ck.

[orca]

Disappointing that the thread appears to have moved to a discussion about a piece of equipment utterly irrelevant in WVR Air Combat Training.

[phil9560]

Sigh......

[Bob Viking]

DV

At the risk of repeating myself I shall say this.

A collision avoidance system would almost certainly have prevented the Moray mid air or a similar occurrence. It could also prevent numerous other mid airs between FJs and civilian aircraft where the FJ is in a benign stage of flight.

I think you run the risk of diluting your argument by dragging it into a thread about a mid air between FJs apparently involved in ACT.

When I have engaged in ACT in the Hawk (TCAS equipped) it is invariably operated in standby mode since it would be of no benefit (often one aircraft within the formation, usually a jet with no student, will have it turned on in case of strangers). The other jet is usually well within the bubble of concern and hence warnings would either be constantly repeated or not triggered.

Even if a warning were to be triggered, looking in at the TCAS display or listening to the climb/descend command would be less useful than looking out the window.

Typhoon is far more dynamic than a Hawk and so any collision avoidance system, to work during ACT, would have to be awesome to be of any use.

I think you’d be better off starting a new thread devoted to the issue of collision avoidance systems instead of mistakenly trying to apply it to an accident that it almost certainly wouldn’t have prevented.

BV

[Homelover]

So, at the time of the 2018 Safety Statement being signed (July 2018), the Lossiemouth Typhoons were having 2 airprox on 14 Jun 2017 and 25 Aug 2017??? The Typhoon doesn’t have a CWS (and neither does any other aircraft of its genre- Gripen, F15, Rafale, Late Block F16, SU 30, or even the more modern F-22 and F-35), but neither does it have aTime Travel module. I suggest you get your facts straight JJ, before you start any more rabble-rousing.