Interesting KC-46 approach at Paris
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you mean they made a trainee landing ?
More seriously, as someone already stated, it looks like a last minute change of runway (21 instead of 25), with a little bit of a hurry.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Not lost, but slightly uncertain of position.
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the linked article:
"A discussion is currently going on on social media between professional airline pilots whether or not the aircraft should have aborted its landing instead of continuing the unstable approach and landing halfway down the runway."
Or maybe military aircraft and aircrew have different requirements and therefore operate in a different way then what professional airline pilots are accustomed to.
Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow.
"A discussion is currently going on on social media between professional airline pilots whether or not the aircraft should have aborted its landing instead of continuing the unstable approach and landing halfway down the runway."
Or maybe military aircraft and aircrew have different requirements and therefore operate in a different way then what professional airline pilots are accustomed to.
Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow.
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or maybe military aircraft and aircrew have different requirements and therefore operate in a different way then what professional airline pilots are accustomed to.
Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow.
Looks fairly normal and uneventful to me. Seen all sorts of (X)C-135's, KC-10's, C-17's and other military type heavies do those type of landings from a visual downwind. Do it the civi way at a fighter base, and you will be accused of flying the dreaded bomber pattern and ruining ATC's flow.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Not lost, but slightly uncertain of position.
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
-Go around
-Landing and then landing abort due to long landing and not enough stopping distance
-Landing long and ending up as a burning wreck somewhere past the overrun
-Landing hard on the nose wheel in an attempt to force it down in the touchdown zone
-Landing on the grass
or as in this case:
-landing long, and stopping without reversers and without any drama on the remaining runway.
Sorry, I don't see the issue here? Just because its not done this way in the civilian world does not make it unsafe.
Only half a speed-brake
Thanks for that an22 video! Obviously there is finesse involved in manoeuvring a large aircraft like those in both of the shots, personally, the Ruskies handle with more style to it, the touchdown itself included.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Age: 61
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually the AN-22 landed with one set of main wheels on the grass and crushed one of the PAPI lights in the process
Last edited by wub; 18th Jun 2019 at 19:20.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Not lost, but slightly uncertain of position.
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Application of Stable Approach Criteria is equally important whether the context is military or commercial. The purpose is to create barriers to runway excursion with associated aircraft damage, hull loss, injury or fatalities. All of which represent a significant loss of military capability.
In the approach and landing phases, there is absolutely no requirement for this type of aircraft to be operated differently than the airliner equivalent. On this occasion, the crew got away with it; on another day they won’t.
The proper outcome was a go-around. I can only imagine that those who think otherwise have not operated similar types of aircraft, either in the military or in an airline.
In the approach and landing phases, there is absolutely no requirement for this type of aircraft to be operated differently than the airliner equivalent. On this occasion, the crew got away with it; on another day they won’t.
The proper outcome was a go-around. I can only imagine that those who think otherwise have not operated similar types of aircraft, either in the military or in an airline.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Age: 61
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1000 hrs Nimrod
I also have 1000 hrs Dominie (HS-125) teaching Fast Jet Navs and Airmen Aircrew at (primarily) Low Level.
Oh, and 2000 hrs as a Multi-Engined Qualified Flying Instructor.
So I would suggest I know quite a lot about manoeuvring large aircraft close to the surface, whether land or sea).
If you would take luck over skill, you are the last person I would want to fly with, that's an accident waiting to happen.
Last edited by ExAscoteer; 18th Jun 2019 at 19:59.
Nothing like as bad as the An22 at Farnborough all those years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiheoXf-IEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiheoXf-IEs
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Not lost, but slightly uncertain of position.
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2000 hrs C-130.
1000 hrs Nimrod
I also have 1000 hrs Dominie (HS-125) teaching Fast Jet Navs and Airmen Aircrew at (primarily) Low Level.
Oh, and 2000 hrs as a Multi-Engined Qualified Flying Instructor.
So I would suggest I know quite a lot about manoeuvring large aircraft close to the surface, whether land or sea).
If you would take luck over skill, you are the last person I would want to fly with, that's an accident waiting to happen.
1000 hrs Nimrod
I also have 1000 hrs Dominie (HS-125) teaching Fast Jet Navs and Airmen Aircrew at (primarily) Low Level.
Oh, and 2000 hrs as a Multi-Engined Qualified Flying Instructor.
So I would suggest I know quite a lot about manoeuvring large aircraft close to the surface, whether land or sea).
If you would take luck over skill, you are the last person I would want to fly with, that's an accident waiting to happen.
Thanks, I asked because it seems most of the guys commenting this landing don't have any military background. I could not see from your public profile whether you only "talked the talk" or also "walked the walk". I admit that I don't have any heavy experience, but have witnessed landings like that many times in exercises and operations down range. The guys doing those landings did them for a reason!
Genuine question: why do you think its more luck than reasoned judgement?
The luck over skill comment was me being sarcastic.
Ewan,
Do you have any contribution to this discussion?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’m with F-16GUY on this. Was hoping for something exciting and the video is only interesting at best. (As titled!).
The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so...
The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so...
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Americans are much more familiar with side-step procedures than we British and a military flight positioning from Germany could well have incorporated a training element, so it is anybody's guess what their plan was. All looked pretty smooth and controlled to me. No drama.
BEagle - you really must tell us all soon about your employment with Airbus, trying to flog the A330 Tanker around the world to anyone daft enough to buy it! 
BEagle - you really must tell us all soon about your employment with Airbus, trying to flog the A330 Tanker around the world to anyone daft enough to buy it!
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’m with F-16GUY on this. Was hoping for something exciting and the video is only interesting at best. (As titled!).
The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so...
The angle of Bank is tame and constant, he/she rolls wings level when the port wingtip is about “gear to top of fin/ vertical stabiliser” off the ground, speed is under control within a 1000ft of roll or so...
It's just the runway that missed the airplane by half a mile :-)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,837
Received 2,805 Likes
on
1,195 Posts
He should have done a go around then checked the runway was indeed clear, just like this 