Two tankers attacked in Gulf of Oman
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They have one of the quietest submarines in the world built by the Russians, where they could have struck a tanker with a high chance of nobody knowing... but instead they decide to place and then remove above-water level mines in full view, while being filmed by a UCAV?
It doesn't add up.
I'd bet a year's salary that Iranian Special Forces did NOT plant or remove those mines.
It doesn't add up.
I'd bet a year's salary that Iranian Special Forces did NOT plant or remove those mines.
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I for one couldn't understand why they would target a Japanese vessel while hosting the countries PM, not exactly the way to cement future relationships.
Digression: Corbyn is for Brexit in the north, and remain in the south
Simples.
Simples.
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Rogue actors, whether ‘Iran’s Other Government’ or whoever, are IMO unlikely to explore Google to find who owns what. ‘They’ just desire impact and chaos.
There are many buisnesses who desire impact and chaos as they make super profits from it. Often these are acting with "unofficial" state actors.
Who profits from this attack.....
I suspect the Saudis - there is NO benefit to Iran, it's too amateurish for the Israelis or US intelligence
I'd like to see some more of the "clear evidence" that it was Iranian - some pictures/radar tracks showing Iranian based fast craft hauling alongside these tankers at (?at night?) and placing mines on them. Damn hard to do with frogmen if they are underway
The fact that the Iranians were quickly on the scene is no surprise - they are the closest coastline and according to the USN timeline it was over an hour from the first Mayday to them arriving
I suspect the Saudis - there is NO benefit to Iran, it's too amateurish for the Israelis or US intelligence
I'd like to see some more of the "clear evidence" that it was Iranian - some pictures/radar tracks showing Iranian based fast craft hauling alongside these tankers at (?at night?) and placing mines on them. Damn hard to do with frogmen if they are underway
The fact that the Iranians were quickly on the scene is no surprise - they are the closest coastline and according to the USN timeline it was over an hour from the first Mayday to them arriving
Actually looking at the height of the "limpet mine" above the water and the report of "missiles" by one of the crew I wonder if we're looking at a drone attack here??
Why did the Iranians attempt to shoot down the Reaper Drone that responded to the vessels after the attack on them?
The vessels were in International waters thus the Drone was as well.
Why was the crew of the one tanker detained by the Iranians?
What is it the Iranians are trying to hide?
Why did the Iranians put out a propaganda video declaring they had sunk Israeli and American vessels?
Why do you not question the Iranians and hold them to the same standard you do the Americans?
The vessels were in International waters thus the Drone was as well.
Why was the crew of the one tanker detained by the Iranians?
What is it the Iranians are trying to hide?
Why did the Iranians put out a propaganda video declaring they had sunk Israeli and American vessels?
Why do you not question the Iranians and hold them to the same standard you do the Americans?
Prior it appears plus a drone coming close to a naval vessel will get shot down / warned off. USN will do the same thing.
Opposite site of "A" story is US drone was providing targeting info for someone else to attack the tankers and there to photgraph it.
Are US drones following "every" tanker that is transiting Straits of Hormuz or is it very selective based on direct orders from eleswhere. Would be interesting on seeing where the paper trail is leading.
The vessels were in International waters thus the Drone was as well.
USS Sides and Vincennes saw same data, one had a competent crew who understood their duty, the other didn't and shot down a civilian airliner.
Iranian drone operating in international waters close to a US Naval vessel will get treated as hostile, should same not apply on opposite sides ?
Why was the crew of the one tanker detained by the Iranians?
What is it the Iranians are trying to hide?
Why did the Iranians put out a propaganda video declaring they had sunk Israeli and American vessels?
Why do you not question the Iranians and hold them to the same standard you do the Americans?
I do and look at their motives. Someone is intent on getting a shooting match started. US Def Sec and Sec of State are the ones egging it on in recent weeks with Israel and Saudi's seeking an attack on Iran and openly requesting it.
Yet seemingly everybody has to believe that Iran wants it to start.
I do and look at their motives. Someone is intent on getting a shooting match started. US Def Sec and Sec of State are the ones egging it on in recent weeks with Israel and Saudi's seeking an attack on Iran and openly requesting it.
Trump has clearly stated he wishes to have substantive negotiations with the Iranians and even asked the Japanese PM to encourage them to do so.
How is that calling for War?
You seem to be reading very different news sources than I am re these Tanker attacks...all four of them.
Trump has clearly stated he wishes to have substantive negotiations with the Iranians and even asked the Japanese PM to encourage them to do so.
How is that calling for War?
Trump has clearly stated he wishes to have substantive negotiations with the Iranians and even asked the Japanese PM to encourage them to do so.
How is that calling for War?
Trump has been very clear that he doesn't seek a war, I believe him which is why the Deep State hate him. Pompeo and Bolton have been very clear they wish for a war, be it in Venezuala, Iran or anywhere else and yes I would firmly believe they would conspire to get US into a war in whatever way possible.
You know from when you served that Navy / Marines / Air Force / Army struggled to coordinate things because each had different agenda and plans. This is exactly the same at Govt level but the implications can be even worse for decades after.
In Russia if something happens then Putin seemingly ordered it, Iran it was Ayatollah but seemingly in US / UK etc then it wasn't the President / PM but someone else.
Fact is most leaders don't have a clue what people are getting up to and rely on being briefed properly but military / intel are quite happy to lie to their back teeth until they caught. Current National leaders wouldn't be first to have to rely on the media for information because the way it gets sanitised and blocked at verious stages of the bureaucracy.
Maybe we should look a bit further into world/area interest in this region and the benefits/losses that could occur if there is a full confrontation in the Gulf. I worked there for many years including
in the maritime recce. role, (was there at the time of the Vincennes incident and I mean there, about 100' and 6-8 miles away) and have to say ( only my own opinion,) that I was not impressed with the actions/ radio of the USN.! There appears to be too many queries/doubts as to these incidents to apportion blame at this stage. The Iranian military (?) are far more sophisticated than appears in these reports!
Not anti-American, worked there as well and have much admiration for them!
Bill
in the maritime recce. role, (was there at the time of the Vincennes incident and I mean there, about 100' and 6-8 miles away) and have to say ( only my own opinion,) that I was not impressed with the actions/ radio of the USN.! There appears to be too many queries/doubts as to these incidents to apportion blame at this stage. The Iranian military (?) are far more sophisticated than appears in these reports!
Not anti-American, worked there as well and have much admiration for them!
Bill
Even the crew of the Vincennes were ashamed of their actions that day.
If in doubt of that....watch the video and see their reaction when they realized the "Threat" was a civilian airliner they had shot down.
Mistakes happen for many reasons and far too many innocent folks get harmedt when that happens.
I am sure the US Navy learned some very bitter lessons from that tragedy.
One must recall the earlier successful attack on a US warship not all that long before the Vincennes Incident.
For sure someone is intent upon causing chaos and heightened tensions in the area and have succeeded somewhat.
If and when they get found out there shall be a heavy price to pay for these four attacks.
That does not excuse what happened but does help in describing the environment the ship was operating in.....the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are dangerous places due to the hostile relationships of so many countries in the Region.
If in doubt of that....watch the video and see their reaction when they realized the "Threat" was a civilian airliner they had shot down.
Mistakes happen for many reasons and far too many innocent folks get harmedt when that happens.
I am sure the US Navy learned some very bitter lessons from that tragedy.
One must recall the earlier successful attack on a US warship not all that long before the Vincennes Incident.
For sure someone is intent upon causing chaos and heightened tensions in the area and have succeeded somewhat.
If and when they get found out there shall be a heavy price to pay for these four attacks.
That does not excuse what happened but does help in describing the environment the ship was operating in.....the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are dangerous places due to the hostile relationships of so many countries in the Region.
SASless,
Thanks for quick reply, I have no arguements with any of your comments, however, I was well aware of the environment that I was operating in - I had been doing it for 10 years!! (with three crew and some good kit) and we were all aware of the political situation at the time
Rightly or wrongly I still have the feeling that there is somewhat more to this latest *** (call it what you wish!!!) than meets the eye (or the eye of the press) and the politicians (leaders??)
Bill
Thanks for quick reply, I have no arguements with any of your comments, however, I was well aware of the environment that I was operating in - I had been doing it for 10 years!! (with three crew and some good kit) and we were all aware of the political situation at the time
Rightly or wrongly I still have the feeling that there is somewhat more to this latest *** (call it what you wish!!!) than meets the eye (or the eye of the press) and the politicians (leaders??)
Bill
Material left behind after what the US said was the removal of an unexploded limpet mine.
Blast damage on the Kokuka Courageous.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...?section=world
Blast damage on the Kokuka Courageous.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...?section=world
Amazingly from the pictures the boat is there for over 1 hour removing a mine, knowing full well that they will be photegraphed, other ships will come alongside and without reference to the outcome if said device exploded.
But then again it may have been a dummy placed there with a plan for it not to go off to show the world a picture certain people wanted.
Strange how with all that camera equipment and surveillance they were not able to spot the boat that the people who placed it were on. Assumming tanker was making 10-12 knots then would have needed to be a reasonably fast and competent team to have done it without anybody spotting it twice on same ship.
Unless it was always a dummy and the ships crews crew who reported a "missile" / drone attack were the ones who called it right.
But then again it may have been a dummy placed there with a plan for it not to go off to show the world a picture certain people wanted.
Strange how with all that camera equipment and surveillance they were not able to spot the boat that the people who placed it were on. Assumming tanker was making 10-12 knots then would have needed to be a reasonably fast and competent team to have done it without anybody spotting it twice on same ship.
Unless it was always a dummy and the ships crews crew who reported a "missile" / drone attack were the ones who called it right.