UK orders Boeing E7...
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,560
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
Although it seems to make sense from the point of view of airframe commonality and being slightly more up threat, is this further signalling a reduction in the E-7 order?
With 8 going back to Lossie and 5 for the chop, if 51 go elsewhere as speculated, does it make operational sense to consolidate 14 and 54 at Lossie so the 'Locally Piloted' ISTAR force isn't split over three stations? Waddo then becomes the centre for RPAS and when 216 becomes fully operation swarm technology with RAFAT for company.
(My naughty thought was they are a piloted swarm)
Does anyone know if XIII or 39 will disband once 31 becomes fully operational on Protector or will it be in addition to the existing squadrons?
With 8 going back to Lossie and 5 for the chop, if 51 go elsewhere as speculated, does it make operational sense to consolidate 14 and 54 at Lossie so the 'Locally Piloted' ISTAR force isn't split over three stations? Waddo then becomes the centre for RPAS and when 216 becomes fully operation swarm technology with RAFAT for company.
(My naughty thought was they are a piloted swarm)Does anyone know if XIII or 39 will disband once 31 becomes fully operational on Protector or will it be in addition to the existing squadrons?
*Nerd Alert*
5 may be the older squadron but 8 has more seniority and has been announced as the Wedgetail squadron. The same announcement in 2019 included the reformation of 23 and 216 making 43 and 111 the senior unallocated dormant squadron numbers, however 5 has more seniority so could jump ahead as did 31 which was announced as the first Protector squadron in 2018.
5 may be the older squadron but 8 has more seniority and has been announced as the Wedgetail squadron. The same announcement in 2019 included the reformation of 23 and 216 making 43 and 111 the senior unallocated dormant squadron numbers, however 5 has more seniority so could jump ahead as did 31 which was announced as the first Protector squadron in 2018.
Speaking at the Chief of the Air Staff’s Air & Space Power Conference (ASPC) in London on 17 July (2019), the head of the RAF announced the continuation of 8 Squadron as the unit to field the Boeing E-7 Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) platform as it replaces the Boeing E-3D Sentry AEW1; the reformation of 23 Squadron as the service’s dedicated unit for space operations; and the reformation of 216 Squadron as an experimental unit dedicated to developing ‘swarming’ technology for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) Source: Janes
SLXOwft that maybe so. But wasn’t Wedgetail “announced” for Waddington with a swanky mocked up picture of an E7 taking off with Lincoln Cathedral in the background?
Also, a conspicuous lack of 8 Sqn markings too...
Also, a conspicuous lack of 8 Sqn markings too...
...and no roundel.
The RAF's public announcement
RAF surveillance fleet to be based in Moray includes:
"The arrival of the Wedgetail in 2023 will also mark a return to RAF Lossiemouth for 8 Squadron, after an absence of 30 years."
I suspect the change.to Lossiemouth is a combination of bean counting and pro-union politics. Let's not forget before the decision to shut Leuchars and move Typhoon there, Lossie was supposed to get the F-35s - priorities change and hence basing plans.
Always had a soft spot for V(AC) though as one of my earliest memories of FJs is watching/feeling a pair of its Lightnings take off and thinking I want to do that when I grow up ...
The RAF's public announcement
RAF surveillance fleet to be based in Moray includes:
"The arrival of the Wedgetail in 2023 will also mark a return to RAF Lossiemouth for 8 Squadron, after an absence of 30 years."
I suspect the change.to Lossiemouth is a combination of bean counting and pro-union politics. Let's not forget before the decision to shut Leuchars and move Typhoon there, Lossie was supposed to get the F-35s - priorities change and hence basing plans.
Always had a soft spot for V(AC) though as one of my earliest memories of FJs is watching/feeling a pair of its Lightnings take off and thinking I want to do that when I grow up ...
Last edited by SLXOwft; 20th Dec 2020 at 09:02. Reason: Increased clarity
SLXOwft,
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLXOwft,
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
pr00ne, genuine thanks for pointing out that my point was badly written, I have edited it for clarity. 
I was referring to moving Typhoon to Lossiemouth and F-35 changing to Marham, mind you I can't remember which decision came first,
I was referring to moving Typhoon to Lossiemouth and F-35 changing to Marham, mind you I can't remember which decision came first,
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLXOwft,
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
For a supposed main operating base that has just had many millions spent on it, on runway and related infra, it doesn't tell a good story.
And on a related point, about eggs in one basket, only time will tell whether centralising the whole RAF FW frontline on 4 MOBs was a sensible idea or not.
andrewn,
It's actually 16 assigned jets, as mentioned in the last Red Arrows BI when the establishment was upped from 13. As for being "mere number plates" I'm sure the personnel on those squadrons really appreciate your attitude. Waddington is a major RAF station, not merely an airfield, and don't forget that the average cold war fighter base in 11 Group had a mere two squadrons with an establishment of 12 a/c each. Then there is the Islander/Defender squadron transferred to the RAF from the AAC, they may well move. Plus as a centre for Protector Ops it will have a LOT of aircrew...
It's actually 16 assigned jets, as mentioned in the last Red Arrows BI when the establishment was upped from 13. As for being "mere number plates" I'm sure the personnel on those squadrons really appreciate your attitude. Waddington is a major RAF station, not merely an airfield, and don't forget that the average cold war fighter base in 11 Group had a mere two squadrons with an establishment of 12 a/c each. Then there is the Islander/Defender squadron transferred to the RAF from the AAC, they may well move. Plus as a centre for Protector Ops it will have a LOT of aircrew...
SLXOwft,
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
Leuchars was never slated to get F-35.
8 Sqn to Lossiemouth makes perfect sense as it is a fleet of 9 P-8A and between 3 and 5 E-7A with a common airframe and engines, so support in one location makes perfect sense, especially considering the significant financial investment in infrastructure at Lossiemouth, why duplicate that at Waddington?
As to 'whither Waddo" as someone else posted further up the page. Yes, after 8 Sqn go north and 5 Squadron disband, poor Waddington will be left with only;
14 Squadron.
51 Squadron.
Electronic Warfare Avionics Division.
54 Squadron OCU.
56 Squadron OEU.
The Air Battlespace Training Centre.
92 Squadron.
The Air Warfare Centre.
The RAF Aerobatic Team The Red Arrows.
13 Squadron.
31 Squadron.
39 Squadron.
616 Sqn RAuxAF.
ISR Support Squadron.
54 Signals Unit.
8 Force Protection Wing.
5 Police Squadron.
2503 RAuxAF Regiment Squadron.
7006 Squadron RAuxAF.
7010 Squadron RAuxAF.
7630 Squadron RAuxAF.
The tumbleweed must really blow there eh?
They may have missed a few antenna on the mockup
This powerpoint presentation is an interesting read.
https://airpower.airforce.gov.au/APD...Transcript.pdf
We’ve got a lot of antennas. I probably wouldn’t know if I’m missing one on a walk-around—there are so many. But you can see HF antennas on the bottom, a bunch of different VU and JTIDS [Joint Tactical Information Distribution System ] antennas. You’ve got Link 11, 16 and we’ve also got MiRC as well now, post [Operation] OKRA
The Director in the CAOC at the time, the USAF general, called us up one day and he said ‘I need you to get me more crews and I need you to get me more jets’ and I said, ‘Oh, why is that sir?’ and he said ‘The Wedgetail is just so much more capable, technology-wise and control-wise, the level of control that my fighters are getting. We want you guys airborne all the time’. It got to the point where we were getting specifically tasked whenever certain strikes were happening; that’s when we would fly to cover the strikes. I said ‘Thank you very much sir, that’s great, but we’ve got two crews here— that’s 50 percent of the Royal Australian Air Force’s capability right here. And we’re wheezing back at home to just keep raise, train, sustaining the ones that will come after us and replace us’. And he was shocked. He had absolutely no idea that our Air Force was that small in terms of our AEW&C community. They [USAF] had five [E-3] jets and nine crews on our base alone.
So we punch above our weight. Unfortunately, it’s led to a high demand for our services, which has a lot of impacts on us and stuff. I wish we could have given him more crews and more jets—I really do—but that’s just the state of play that we had. And, from a sustainment point of view now, because again my personal view on this is that I think Wedgetail will be involved in this for quite some time, we’ve dropped back to one crew over there, just to be able to sustain operations for the long term.
This powerpoint presentation is an interesting read.
https://airpower.airforce.gov.au/APD...Transcript.pdf
We’ve got a lot of antennas. I probably wouldn’t know if I’m missing one on a walk-around—there are so many. But you can see HF antennas on the bottom, a bunch of different VU and JTIDS [Joint Tactical Information Distribution System ] antennas. You’ve got Link 11, 16 and we’ve also got MiRC as well now, post [Operation] OKRA
The Director in the CAOC at the time, the USAF general, called us up one day and he said ‘I need you to get me more crews and I need you to get me more jets’ and I said, ‘Oh, why is that sir?’ and he said ‘The Wedgetail is just so much more capable, technology-wise and control-wise, the level of control that my fighters are getting. We want you guys airborne all the time’. It got to the point where we were getting specifically tasked whenever certain strikes were happening; that’s when we would fly to cover the strikes. I said ‘Thank you very much sir, that’s great, but we’ve got two crews here— that’s 50 percent of the Royal Australian Air Force’s capability right here. And we’re wheezing back at home to just keep raise, train, sustaining the ones that will come after us and replace us’. And he was shocked. He had absolutely no idea that our Air Force was that small in terms of our AEW&C community. They [USAF] had five [E-3] jets and nine crews on our base alone.
So we punch above our weight. Unfortunately, it’s led to a high demand for our services, which has a lot of impacts on us and stuff. I wish we could have given him more crews and more jets—I really do—but that’s just the state of play that we had. And, from a sustainment point of view now, because again my personal view on this is that I think Wedgetail will be involved in this for quite some time, we’ve dropped back to one crew over there, just to be able to sustain operations for the long term.
Last edited by golder; 22nd Dec 2020 at 13:00.
