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Red Arrows to move from RAF Scampton to one of three sites

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Red Arrows to move from RAF Scampton to one of three sites

Old 21st Mar 2019, 16:21
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Wait a minute...

Why exactly has this thread morphed into a ‘name your favourite airfield’ thread?!

There are three options according to the thread title. Surely they warrant more discussion?

They all have long runways and/or stopping aids.

BV
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 16:27
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Culdrose or Yeovilton, obviously.
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 16:48
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Why exactly has this thread morphed into a ‘name your favourite airfield’ thread?!

BV
No idea, - but if that's the game, I'll add Brüggen
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 17:11
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Leeming - a little further north than ideal, given that most displays are in the south of the UK. But a good long runway and plenty of available space, with only Tatty Ton and the nascent T1 AFS being in residence. Of the 3, the only one which doesn't require departures and arrivals over a major road. Teesside/Durham or whatever it calls itself these days isn't really that close to be a factor, but would be a convenient diversion.

Waddington - rather busy with resident aircraft and visitors, no spare hangarage. The proximity of the A15 and the road traffic issue which that would cause whenever the Team was departing or landing would be rather significant.

Wittering - full of plastic pigs flying UAS and AEF most of the time and much closer to the A1 than Leeming is to the A1M.

Of the 3, Leeming seems the obvious choice. Which no doubt means that Swanton Morley will actually be chosen!
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 18:40
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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The old RAF Squires Gate sat empty and unused, takeoff over the sea and practise out of the way to the delights of the Blackpool populace. would have stuck the P8 in there also. Blank canvas
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 19:00
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Melchett01;10423922]


Question is when did he buy said house. Airfields aren’t easy to hide, so if he bought it whilst the airfield was active he’s on a sticky wicket and needs to complain about the standard of survey done by the conveyancer. I was constantly fending off daft complaints whilst holding at Coningsby many moons ago. They quickly shut up when I asked how long have you owned your home, because we’ve been here since 1940. Low flying complaints were always amusing ‘no Madam, I can assure you it wasn’t gratuitous behaviour just to disrupt your party, he was in fact landing at the time you spotted him’.

As for how many crashes on the A1, you could ask the similar question about Leeming or Waddington and the A15. Personally I’d quite like them in Wittering. Between the Reds and BBMF using my house as a waypoint in the past, I could have most of the display season sewn up. But as it stands, and purely because it’s a wholly illogical move, they will no doubt end up at Waddington

Waddington was looked a few years ago as a new home for the Reds. It was rejected because: Operational flying interfered with playtime.
There is no room on 22 to place a barrier in its traditional location. It would over run the road.....
Also I heard the Reds wanted a separate entrance to ‘their’ bit of the real estate so they didn’t have to bother with things like guardrooms etc.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 00:22
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Waddington - rather busy with resident aircraft and visitors, no spare hangarage. The proximity of the A15 and the road traffic issue which that would cause whenever the Team was departing or landing would be rather significant.
Ah, good point, the A15 adjacent to Waddington - rather like the, er, A15 adjacent to, er, Scampton! ��
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:09
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by H Peacock View Post
Ah, good point, the A15 adjacent to Waddington - rather like the, er, A15 adjacent to, er, Scampton! ��
Err, no. Unlike the, err, A15 next to Waddington, which has traffic lights to stop traffic when aircraft are landing on RW22 due to its proximity to the road, the, err, A15 at Scampton was built sufficiently far from the, err, RW threshold to allow road traffic to continue normally, no matter whether aircraft are landing or, err, not. Same applies to, err, Wittering....

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 11:35
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Beagle, Waddington ‘rather busy’????? When were you last there? Almost all flyable assets deployed - other than the odd flying club movement I have noticed very little change in traffic between runway closed and open!

I accept the earlier point about 313 being renewed annually, however, it is established and the CAA would be hard pressed to deny a renewal. However, going to them to ask for a completely new patch of restricted airspace, 10 miles by 8500’ would be a different story. The Reds will go wherever they can access 313 from I think....

And for those advocating keeping Scampton open, much of the infrastructure is derelict, yet subject of English Heritage preservation orders. We tried moving loads of units in there when it last reopened (C4 hub) but the preservation orders stopped it.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 11:55
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Originally Posted by DCThumb View Post
However, going to them to ask for a completely new patch of restricted airspace, 10 miles by 8500’ would be a different story.
They have though, proposal application went to CAA in Nov of last year.

https://airspacechange.caa.co.uk/Pub...alArea?pID=105

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:23
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Good find GeeRam. I can't see how R313 could be applied at Leeming, but maybe Topcliffe?
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:25
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Asked is very different to approved......
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:23
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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If RAF PR get a vote, and they will, then it will be Wittering. Get rid of that old Harrier and stick 'Home of the Red Arrows' for everyone to see. Would hazard a guess that Wittering would be the pilot choice.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:38
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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I can see Wittering working however, perhaps not as successfully as some other options. Establishing a new R313 directly on top of Wittering would be tight squeeze up against the Sibson para DZ. You could push that airspace a bit further north, over Cottesmore but then you're nudging up against Buckminster Gliding Club at Saltby. On top of that, if there is the desire to continue as is normal at Scampton during practices, you'll need to man Cottesmore's ATC tower and Fire section. Further, whilst Wittering has an ACR currently manned by blue suits who could provide the radar services to RAFAT in the same way that Waddington currently does, when Programme Marshall kicks in, those blue suits and the radar will be relocated at Marham - not convinced Cottesmore (or Wittering) will be in "solid radar cover" in the same way as Scampton is to Waddington.
Yorkshire, IMHO, would appear to be the best bet.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 09:53
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Yorkshire, IMHO, would appear to be the best bet.
Finningley is hardly ever used; why not buy it back?
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 10:03
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I believe if WIT is used then COT’s runway/overhead would be used for practice.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 18:53
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Finningley is hardly ever used; why not buy it back?

PMSL, like the MOD can afford to buy back an international airport for a display team.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 20:16
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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I notice some of the discussion includes different basing/practicing locations. Can I offer a thought that it would seem to be important that RAFAT training is conducted in the overhead of an airfield with a suitable Crash Rescue and Fire fighting capability?

OAP

Last edited by Onceapilot; 24th Mar 2019 at 08:23.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 16:43
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
I believe if WIT is used then COT’s runway/overhead would be used for practice.
This has definitely been the strong rumour for some time, so no surprises there. The inclusion of Waddington and Leeming into the mix is interesting, but I suspect is nothing more than an attempt at making it look like a transparent process is being worked through.

Waddington has been rejected previously and would, you assume, still require the existing R313 - which kind of defeats the object of the exercise if, as suspected, Scampton is to be turned into the latest ToyTown housing estate.

Leeming has the T1 co-basing advantages, but not a lot else going for it, with the A1 proximity making Leeming itself unsuitable for practices and no other obvious candidate aerodromes under MoD control.

We shall see, of course...
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 20:13
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
This has definitely been the strong rumour for some time, so no surprises there. The inclusion of Waddington and Leeming into the mix is interesting, but I suspect is nothing more than an attempt at making it look like a transparent process is being worked through.

Waddington has been rejected previously and would, you assume, still require the existing R313 - which kind of defeats the object of the exercise if, as suspected, Scampton is to be turned into the latest ToyTown housing estate.

Leeming has the T1 co-basing advantages, but not a lot else going for it, with the A1 proximity making Leeming itself unsuitable for practices and no other obvious candidate aerodromes under MoD control.

We shall see, of course...
Does Cottesmore or Wiittering have the necessary support services now? ATC, Fire & Rescue, Fuel storage, hangars suitable to house and maintain aircraft, are the operating surfaces up to snuff? Have any new housing estates been built since flying ceased, will it be affected by constant practice sorties. If the answer is we're not sure, then everyone on RAFAT should start practicing understanding that strange Yorkshire accent, because Leeming probably has all that good, practical, expensive stuff already.
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