Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:53
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 77
Posts: 1,373
Received 21 Likes on 13 Posts
Germany Plans to Renege on Pledge to Raise Military Spending, Defying Trump

In the WSJ - Germany plans to renege on pledge to raise military spending.

From the article:-
The German government is poised to renege on its pledge to raise military spending, the latest gesture of defiance by Chancellor Angela Merkel toward President Donald Trump.

If confirmed at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday, the move would mark a fresh step in the gradual estrangement between the U.S. and its erstwhile loyal European ally and comes after President Trump’s repeated attacks North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for not meeting a 2% military-spending target.
Lyneham Lad is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:20
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
How is a country reneging on something when it takes its own sovreign decisions.
racedo is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:31
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 2,131
Received 173 Likes on 89 Posts
Germany plans not to raise military spending - "You can't trust those Germans!"

Germany plans to raise military spending - "You can't trust those Germans!"
melmothtw is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:34
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Putin can have the Germans. If they don’t see the threat, then so be it. Any Article 5 response should be proportionate to the German fiscal commitment.
West Coast is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:41
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 2,131
Received 173 Likes on 89 Posts
A commitment need not always be fiscal, West Coast. The Germans and everyone else responded the only time Article 5 has ever been invoked.

Could we say the US would do the same today?
melmothtw is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:03
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by melmothtw
A commitment need not always be fiscal, West Coast. The Germans and everyone else responded the only time Article 5 has ever been invoked.

Could we say the US would do the same today?
What do you have to point at that as of today the US wouldn’t respond per its commitment? Op-eds don’t count. The answer is, the US would of course respond despite certain member nation not hitting their funding target. Don’t try and find equivance in the show of solidarity post 911 with fighting off tanks crossing the border. Or rallying NATO to fight genocide within Europe for that matter.




West Coast is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:08
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 2,131
Received 173 Likes on 89 Posts
Just the words of your president and the right-wing of your political class (the wing that used to oppose Russia, ironically).

And in terms of responding to Article 5, there absolutely is equivalency I'm afraid - that's the entire point of it. 'One for all, and all for one' in every circumstance.
melmothtw is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:19
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by West Coast
Putin can have the Germans. If they don’t see the threat, then so be it. Any Article 5 response should be proportionate to the German fiscal commitment.
It is not Russia that is demanding German consumers should pay billions more for their energy so US shareholders get bigger dividends.

In 2002 German rejected the claims for War in Iraq, abused at the time they proved to be right and unwilling to bend despite the abuse.

Germans understand history very well.


racedo is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:32
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by melmothtw
Just the words of your president and the right-wing of your political class (the wing that used to oppose Russia, ironically).

And in terms of responding to Article 5, there absolutely is equivalency I'm afraid - that's the entire point of it. 'One for all, and all for one' in every circumstance.
Can you kindly point me to where Trump has changed US commitment to article 5?

Glad you can find equivalence to droning around the midwest US in the flight levels and taking incoming.
West Coast is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:47
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 2,131
Received 173 Likes on 89 Posts
NATO went to war over 9/11, and NATO soldiers (including Germans) died.

I have neither the time nor inclination to trawl through Trump' s Twitter feed, but it's all there if you care to look.
melmothtw is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:47
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
It is not Russia that is demanding German consumers should pay billions more for their energy so US shareholders get bigger dividends.

In 2002 German rejected the claims for War in Iraq, abused at the time they proved to be right and unwilling to bend despite the abuse.

Germans understand history very well.
The question is do you understand history? Recent history at that. Do you understand the strategic implications of a weak Germany being energy dependant upon Russia, a stronger power? It’s not like the Russians haven’t used NG deliveries to achieve their means. If they hadn’t held Germany hostage over NG deliveries, it would only be a logical path to influence the Germans, now that they have, it’s a proven tool.
West Coast is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by melmothtw
NATO went to war over 9/11, and NATO soldiers (including Germans) died.

I have neither the time nor inclination to trawl through Trump' s Twitter feed, but it's all there if you care to look.

You base your assumptions on Twitter, that’s all I need.
West Coast is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:14
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 2,131
Received 173 Likes on 89 Posts
DOJ: Donald Trump's tweets are 'official statements of the President' - Washington Times

DOJ: Trump's tweets are 'official statements of the President'


...but you already knew that.
melmothtw is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:43
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If Germans are paying more for their energy, it is because of decisions Germans made, and they long preceded Trump. But as usual, "when you don't like the way something is going, blame Trump".
obgraham is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 21:50
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by West Coast
The question is do you understand history? Recent history at that. Do you understand the strategic implications of a weak Germany being energy dependant upon Russia, a stronger power? It’s not like the Russians haven’t used NG deliveries to achieve their means. If they hadn’t held Germany hostage over NG deliveries, it would only be a logical path to influence the Germans, now that they have, it’s a proven tool.
But they didn't did they. Russia isn't the country threatening to use Naval assets to blockade LNG ships delivering to customers is it, that was US Secretary of Energy. Russia hasn't attempt to blockade a country claiming it has got nuclear arms, while ignoring actions of its ally in funding them in Pakistan.

The attempt to sanction any company that is involved in Nordsteam 2 is warfare by another means, Europe is not playing ball any longer and US against this because it loses its hold.

US has used Oil as a weapon for decades just now countrys are refusing to bow down to US interests first rather than their own. US has been a force for good throughout the world BUT has also been a force for demanding its Industrys get preference over everybody elses, this keeps campaign cash coming to its politicians.
racedo is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 21:53
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by obgraham
If Germans are paying more for their energy, it is because of decisions Germans made, and they long preceded Trump. But as usual, "when you don't like the way something is going, blame Trump".
Germans will not be though, they will have guarantee of supply and not be concerned that Saudi's and their mates can blockade a country or threaten when it suits, like Qatar and Canada.
racedo is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 22:15
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 68
Posts: 4,395
Received 180 Likes on 88 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
How is a country reneging on something when it takes its own sovreign decisions.
Germany is part of NATO. But they are not fulfilling their NATO obligations. If their 'sovreign' (sic) decision is to not comply with their NATO obligations, then they should withdraw from NATO rather than expecting the US to cover their shortfall.
tdracer is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:19
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 4,076
Received 53 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
But they didn't did they.
Are you kidding? 2009 Gazprom shut off the spigot. I get it, your Vlad’s apologist, but damn, 2009 wasn’t that long ago.
West Coast is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:26
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,273
Received 36 Likes on 27 Posts
Germany can do what they like...

Came second in two World Wars and accepted the money from the Marshall Plan to rebuild. Accepted the US help [and others] in the Berlin Airlift and protection in the Cold War. Maybe it's time for them to pay back if they want freedom..!
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 06:43
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 553
Received 21 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
Germany can do what they like...

Came second in two World Wars and accepted the money from the Marshall Plan to rebuild. Accepted the US help [and others] in the Berlin Airlift and protection in the Cold War. Maybe it's time for them to pay back if they want freedom..!
Haven't they? How much is enough?
t43562 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.