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Bloody Sunday

Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kemble Pitts
The families of innocent victims want to see justice, isn't that good enough in this civilised country of ours?
In a word, No.

The Public Interest test is far more nuanced.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:48
  #22 (permalink)  
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Whilst im uncomfortable with British troops deployed with their hands tied, the number of 'he raised the weapon as if to shoot' copycat testimonies don't enhance our reputation.
Here's another angle.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/...day-soldier-f/
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:47
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Originally Posted by alwayslookingup
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
We know what it means but what is the relevance please?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:06
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
We know what it means but what is the relevance please?
Let's try a different phrase then:

"The public gets the police force they deserve."
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:14
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
In a word, No.

The Public Interest test is far more nuanced.
Well, the NI DPP thinks otherwise.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:28
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Just remind me how many para-military 'suspects' were given free cards by Blair ?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:54
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Worth a read https://webarchive.nationalarchives....04/#the-report

Surprised to read that the soldiers fired over 100 times and there was some shooting from the IRA...
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 23:39
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Originally Posted by Brewster Buffalo
Worth a read https://webarchive.nationalarchives....04/#the-report

Surprised to read that the soldiers fired over 100 times and there was some shooting from the IRA...
" 5.4 We have concluded that the explanation for such firing by Support Company soldiers after they had gone into the Bogside was in most cases probably the mistaken belief among them that republican paramilitaries were responding in force to their arrival in the Bogside. This belief was initiated by the first shots fired by Lieutenant N and reinforced by the further shots that followed soon after. In this belief soldiers reacted by losing their self-control and firing themselves, forgetting or ignoring their instructions and training and failing to satisfy themselves that they had identified targets posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. In the case of those soldiers who fired in either the knowledge or belief that no-one in the areas into which they fired was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, or not caring whether or not anyone there was posing such a threat, it is at least possible that they did so in the indefensible belief that all the civilians they fired at were probably either members of the Provisional or Official IRA or were supporters of one or other of these paramilitary organisations; and so deserved to be shot notwithstanding that they were not armed or posing any threat of causing death or serious injury. Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company. "


Reading the summary it appears clear Wilford disobeyed orders and sent people in.

Now the issue of Military supporting Civilian Authorities has been mentioned in the event a Brexit crash in law and order. Based on the events of Bloody Sunday would the UK population want the Army on the streets.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 06:22
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AR1
Whilst im uncomfortable with British troops deployed with their hands tied, the number of 'he raised the weapon as if to shoot' copycat testimonies don't enhance our reputation.
Here's another angle.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/...day-soldier-f/
From the same publication.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/...-soldiers-too/
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 06:23
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Why would the UK public base its opinion on troop deployment post-Brexit on Bloody Sunday?

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Old 15th Mar 2019, 09:53
  #32 (permalink)  
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unarmed British civilians
No the were not - McGinnis has admitted as much, claiming he may have fired the first shots, not the Para Regt Lt.
Nobody was shooting at the soldiers and 13 protesters were shot dead,
Yes, people were firing at the soldiers
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 11:58
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parabellum
No the were not - McGinnis has admitted as much, claiming he may have fired the first shots, not the Para Regt Lt.

Yes, people were firing at the soldiers
Nope and Bloody Sunday inquiry was clear on that. Not a single weapon was found on any of those who were shote. Army reacted to another army unit firing,
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 12:01
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Originally Posted by orca
Why would the UK public base its opinion on troop deployment post-Brexit on Bloody Sunday?
Because it showed units out control and even post this the establishment culture was all units were blameless.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:37
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Putting ANY troops onto the streets is dangerous. Putting an aggressive outfit such as paratroops even more so

It was clear on the day it was an out-of control reaction and the Brits spent years ignoring it. Now its accepted the legal guys swing into ation

You can't condone murder but it's a bit much that one poor b****** has to carry the can for everyone else
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:48
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo
Nope and Bloody Sunday inquiry was clear on that. Not a single weapon was found on any of those who were shote. Army reacted to another army unit firing,
No weapons were found on the dead, which is a fair reason to believe they were innocent.

Maybe if the Para's had snuffed McGuinness (smiling as he cynically claimed he'd fired the first shots) out at the start, the following years of violence wouldn't have happened.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 14:19
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Racedo - whilst I of course respect your opinion that the behaviour of a group of paratroopers on a particular occasion in particular circumstances a significant amount of time ago could effect the British population’s view of generic troop deployment in a generic ‘support to civil power’ scenario - I personally think it’s utter nonsense.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 14:36
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Perhaps one or two people commenting in this thread should Google "Op Banner" and learn about "peaceful" protest NI style, especially duirng the so called "marching season".

A good record to listen to (banned by both MoD and BBC STILL)
(note this relates to an actual event)

Fully expect this to be moderated out :-(

Last edited by golfbananajam; 15th Mar 2019 at 14:37. Reason: added comment
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 17:04
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Sgt Willetts GC.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 17:54
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam
Perhaps one or two people commenting in this thread should Google "Op Banner" and learn about "peaceful" protest NI style, especially duirng the so called "marching season".

A good record to listen to (banned by both MoD and BBC STILL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOuTNE4_m6k
(note this relates to an actual event)

Fully expect this to be moderated out :-(
I hadn't heard that before.

My opinion on this subject is irrelevant.

I will make one comment. Only those who served during OP Banner during the troubles can ever understand just how terrifying and difficult it was. They have my respect.
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