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saluting a Prime Minister

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saluting a Prime Minister

Old 27th Feb 2019, 21:56
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead View Post
Exactly so O-D. (Remind me when I see you to tell you the tale of a Sgt crewman and a QA Captain in Hong Kong ....... there are some similarities!)

More recently I remember the privilege of meeting Johnson Beharry at Alrewas - although both in uniform, we were hatless in a tent so the "saluting" question didn't arise.

The meeting was enlivened (sic) by the then PM - D Cameron - repeately referring to him as "Sgt Johnson". Best sack that adviser/speechwriter Dave.......
I do believe, by virtue of his full corporal status and serving with the Household Division in London District, said soldier is/ was appointed a lance-sergeant and therefore to be addressed as sergeant. However, the surname confusion should have embarrassed Dave.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 05:56
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Diane Abbott

Never

Ever



Ever






Ever
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 05:57
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Ever
Repeat repeat
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 06:10
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Calm down Jayteeto - it's only an advert! (at the moment).

There is, of course, the 'reverse insult'. In this case somebody expecting a hard time gets given the sweetest of of 'rides' and every courtesy and that can really knock them back.

However, as I have often told younger members of the human race: courtesy costs nothing.

O-D
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 06:31
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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At OTU the Commandant had a habit of wandering through the lines after lectures, when we were sitting around outside our rooms polishing boots etc, usually wearing footy shorts, singlets and general muck order. Of course, as soon as he appeared we had to leap up and stand fast. On these expeditions, he was usually preceded by his pet labrador dog.
One afternoon the dog appeared at on end of the lines, so everyone stood fast. The Commandant appeared at the other end of the lines, to find a dozen occifer cadets paying compliments to his dog. "You, you, you...etc, take an extra."
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 07:01
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Minor thread drift. When did the practice of 'thanking' people for a salute come into force? I was taught many, many years ago that it was not 'done,' a simple acknowledgement by way of 'good morning' or similar was all that was required coupled with the person's name if known.
'Thanking' was frowned on as was saying "Gawd bless 'er" at the end of the loyal toast.

Standing by for incoming!
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 07:48
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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West Drayton for Trade Training, So many baby Officers moving around I found it more useful to just salute everyone and suffer the bollickings.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 08:22
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Radar - Henlow was also a puzzle but in this instance they were cadets. Do I or don't I? It’s so long ago I can’t remember what I did or what I was meant to do.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 12:29
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.

Excellent

"Good Morning your m a j e s t y" at the same time lolol

Or isn't that sarcastic enough?
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 14:01
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Advice given to National Servicemen apparently included:

- if you can't move it, paint it

- if you can move it, take it

- if it moves by itself, salute it
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 14:55
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.
I’m sorry PN, whoever taught you that was an arse. And probably under the thumb at home from a dragon who wore her husband’s rank with more authority than he did.

Unless the wife falls into any of the categories already described, and ladies are an almost endangered species these days, I simply don’t see how she would warrant a salute. Wife isn’t an appointment and any authority at home stays there. Wives insisting on being saluted is up there with civil servant claiming to be ‘a wing commander equivalent’.

As for thanking someone after a salute, that too is a no-no given that the rank and what it represents is being saluted not the individual. To thank someone suggests otherwise, and a simply ‘good morning/afternoon/ hello mate’ is all that is required.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 15:25
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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I’m sure that at OCTU we were taught to salute on 4 occasions:

1. Any senior officer - which includes the other appointments under the Crown referred to above
2. The Cenotaph.
3. Last respects to the dead.
And
4. Greeting any lady. Witness a scene in “ In which we serve” when Noel Coward ( a Captain RN) greets the new wife of a very junior member of his ship’s company with a salute. And in those days films got that sort of thing right!

And no, never “Thank you”

Last edited by Timelord; 28th Feb 2019 at 15:41.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 16:19
  #53 (permalink)  
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Melchett, no disrespect, when did you go through training? At my time it was when we delivered our calling cards.

As for Mrs Sqn Ldr, wife of a friend at Mess coffee morning went to join group of wives of similar age. She was directed to join the fg off/flt lt wives. Indeed much later Mrs PN was told not to join a group of 'execs' wives. Later, after Mrs Stn Cdr became Mrs ex-SC and took up a job shelf stacking in Budgens it was a pleasure stepping over her.

I think she did it deliberately as we knew who she was and how it would reflect on him. He still made 3*.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:01
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Melchett, your "................ Wives insisting on being saluted is up there with civil servant claiming to be ‘a wing commander equivalent’ " calls for a little amplification or clarification as seen from a civil servant's point of view.

My experience was narrow, being entirely scientific civil service, in Met Office MoD , usually serving on RAF stations or HQs. I never laid any such foolish claim, and neither did I hear any of my colleagues or staff being so silly. The idea of Equivalent Military Rank [EMR] seems to have been born of a need by the military [I suspect initailly the army] to place civilians in a hierarchy regarding civil/military relations.

An example. The newly appointed Director General of the Met Office announced his intention of visiting RAFG and BAOR Met Offices. Unprecedented to my certain knowledge. As C Met O I was cast in the unenviable role of gopher and bagman. I scuttled along to see my immediate RAF boss, SASO, with the dread news. He asked the obvious question, and the only answer that I could give was that the man was four grades senior to me at least. Thus a posh staff car, a service driver, the VIP suite in the mess, and a lot of tedious office visits for endless coffee and biscuits. At the time I was occupying a Gp Capts OMQ and paying Gp Capts Mess Subs and sitting above all the wing commanders at table. Apart from Mess staff, nobody ever called me sir, and I sirred all Air Commodores and above, of which there were a goodly number.

Far from Met staff getting silly ides, the EMR [or whatever euphemism was used] was necessary for the armed services to cope with these strange civvies. The civvies and their wives gave it not a thought apart from the grim struggle for a good Quarter, although in my previous three overseas tours we were told that if my wife took a job it had to be charitable rather than paid.

The subject of boasted equivalence is bound to annoy proper officers who have not only climbed the greasy pole but put their arses on the line: there can be no equivalence.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:11
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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If I may respond to a couple of points in one post:

PN,
Concur, there is absolutely a difference in timeframes, although we were taught about calling cards in the late 90s when I went through and they featured in the by then dated training literature. But given that it was drummed into us that one salutes rank not the person, and I don’t think that has changed over time, there is simply no doubt in my mind that a wife doesn’t warrant a salute. Standing up for, as you should for any lady, opening doors, addressing appropriately until told to ‘please call me X’. But as commissions are not ‘family membership schemes’, even in the old days, I don’t see how a wife should be saluted.

Langley,
It is unfortunately a common phenomenon I encounter when working with MOD civilians. The worst culprits are often those who never made it past cpl, but have somehow found themselves at C1, and decide to take the ‘rank equivalent for messing purposes’ to an illogical conclusion. I wouldn’t mind, but many aren’t even close to performing to Sgt standard let alone commissioned standards. And I will admit it crinkles slightly, especially when they are also performing poorly. Most ‘professional’ in the sense of career CS only ever use a form of equivalence to work out what Mess they should be in, which I believe was the original intent.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 21:16
  #56 (permalink)  
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Melchett, thank you. I admit I said 'we were taught' not that that was the case when I finally retired a few years ago.

The other thing that lapsed was the formality of saluting on entering an office. Hats on was of course still the case even when I retired however for a routine visit almost everyone removes their cap on entering a building thus avoiding need to salute.

There was an OC Admin at Waddo who put out an order that people visiting SHQ were to wear headdress at all times. Well an order was an order.

Attending an Environmental meeting I sat there SD Hat on until OC SSS asked why. Take it off he said. The rule then died a death

Ad an aside, the cousins used to insist on uncovering on entering a building even to the extent of a soldier telling you to uncover.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 07:26
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Hat on and salute when entering the room for morning Met Brief also seemed to have died out in latter years...
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 07:44
  #58 (permalink)  
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Me to Mrs. Staircase;

'Good God, my simple question has produced 3 web pages of answers'

Mrs. Staircase;

'What a sad bunch of old geezers 'ppruners' are, with nothing else to do but discuss that sort of trivia all day!!'
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 08:36
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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But I think that Mrs Staircase might agree that it keeps us out of the way/trouble!!
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 09:08
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Mrs Staircase seems to have uncanny access to our profiles....I salute her
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