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How much of being a fighter pilot do you believe is genetic?

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How much of being a fighter pilot do you believe is genetic?

Old 8th Feb 2019, 04:12
  #41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by F-16GUY View Post
quantify,

The following link is to a thesis by norwegian testpilot "Timber" He was the first norwegian F-35 pilot and F-35 squadron commander. He made a thesis about the shift of skills required in the F-35 cockpit compared to 4th generation jets. Unfortunately most of the text is in norwegian, but the summery is in english. Maybe you can translate the text with google. To sum it up, future F-35 pilots will need better skills in areas like processing wast amount of information and skills like psychomotoric will not be as important as in existing platforms, as the plane is much easier to fly then earlier generations.

https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstr...=5&isAllowed=y

Even though it is in norwegian, you might be able to get some useful information by looking at his bibliography. I hope it points you in the right direction.
I hope it will answer some of your questions.

Last but not least, and will all the replies you have got until now from people who didn't tell you they are fighterpilots, this joke comes to mind:

Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him.....
Thanks very much, this is quite interesting, how can one practice the skill of processing vasts amounts of information at once? Does that come to your ability to multi task and maintain elite cognitive control where you are able to allow useful information and ignore useless information on a dime?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 07:06
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place......
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 07:16
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by quantify View Post
Thanks very much, this is quite interesting, how can one practice the skill of processing vasts amounts of information at once? Does that come to your ability to multi task and maintain elite cognitive control where you are able to allow useful information and ignore useless information on a dime?
Not sure if/how it can be practiced, but Timbers thesis is that during pilot selection, this area needs to be favored to ensure that future pilots to be, have the right abilities that the F-35 cockpit requires.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 08:45
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MAD Boom View Post
If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place......
I was!!!!!!
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:27
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:31
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
Philip couldn't fly a helicopter even if it had training wheels!
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 17:18
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brian 48nav View Post
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 1990-99 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!

Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes?

He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us!

The Jaguar is a fighter?
I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom!
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 17:25
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM View Post
The Jaguar is a fighter?
I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom!
As opposed to the Phantom's laudable record being that the only air combat it saw (RAF) was in oopsing it's own side! 101.

CG
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 19:20
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Damn ... the shops are shut and I'm right out of popcorn.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 19:54
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Iím pretty sure that a Jaguar hoofed off an AIM-9 at a surface target in GW1...not that this should be taken as a demonstration that the frustrated mud driver wanted to be a fighter pilot.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 21:30
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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typo

Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
You really don't mean anthropomorphic do you?
oops, corrected.

Originally Posted by quantify View Post
Isn't being able to learn quickly an innate skill as well?
Combination of "nature and nurture" according to the av psychologist types I worked with. Claiming it is only "innate" is a post hoc kind of opinion (again, based on what those folks taught me). The other point you make is true for any flying training, and is a good one: being teachable and being open to learn.
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau.
If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it. There is a lot of screening that goes on, but the final test is on task as the demands increase.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 22:06
  #52 (permalink)  

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I was!!!!!!
So was I.

Philip couldn't fly a helicopter even if it had training wheels!
Don't be so sure. A pilot I respected greatly was on the Queen's Flight. Sadly he is no longer with us, but at the commemoration service, a Gp Capt was there, representing the Duke. Neither he nor the Duke suffered fools gladly, so I wouldn't be surprised if Phillip is a pretty good rotary driver, within the constraints of his official duties.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 07:00
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by reader8 View Post
Is anybody aware of any good research on correlation factors that may affect early aptitude assessment?
In his 1981 book 'On the Psychology of Military Incompetence' Normal Dixon mentioned the Defence Mechanism Test used by the Swedish Air Force, supposedly as a test for castration anxiety. The psychoanalytic argument seems to be that fast-jet pilots are compensating for this by wishing to fly fast, powerful and agile aircraft.

Further research by the University of Stockholm in 2002 reported that "...rather than capturing psychodynamic defence mechanisms, our results suggest that the DMT taps perceptual or information-processing difficulties in correct identification of brief stimulus exposures regardless of their emotional contents".

I don't know whether any subsequent work along these lines has been done. From a Jungian perspective, presumably military pilots as a breed are selected as stable extraverts.

Last edited by ACW599; 9th Feb 2019 at 07:15.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 07:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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They say the traits of a high functioning Asperger's, make a good fighter pilot. OCD's for controllers.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 07:16
  #55 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LONEWOLF 50
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau.
That means there's no way for that individual to further learn and improve? How and why do you think this is, due to mental stress deterring performance or "not having the right stuff"?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 07:18
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Bit harsh, BomberH?
You great Jess. "A bit harsh"!!

A proper fighter pilot would have smacked him in the nose and continued drinking the 10th of his 18 pints of that happy hour.

Mind you, you were Crab Air, so I suppose allowances have to be made
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 07:36
  #57 (permalink)  
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If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it.
To take it a step further, there is a big difference between being a good pilot flying a fighter in oeacetime and a good fighter pilot in war. The difference between those, who when the bullets started to fly, became one of the few hawks amongst the many pigeons.

And I believe post-analysis showed many of the former to, in many cases, having been rated as average or below prior to combat having commenced.

E.g.

Amazon Amazon

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor...ne-fokker.html
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 08:54
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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A passing thought, anyone studied whether the proportion of left handedness is higher than normal amongst fighter pilots. In the 80s when I was at Neatishead I discussed the preponderance of left handedness amongst fighter controllers with Aunty Joan. Nothing scientific you understand, just seemed to be quite a lot of them.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:03
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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The Ďhandednessí debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time.
Iíve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate.
As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 00:36
  #60 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by orca View Post
The Ďhandednessí debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time.
Iíve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate.
As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two.
that's pretty interesting, there needs to be more research on fighter pilots in general tbh.
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