AFPS15 - government decision.
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The MOD video at link rather suggests that people who have left would not miss out on any remedy arrived at:
https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/an-update-on-the-mccloud koi-judgement/
https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/an-update-on-the-mccloud koi-judgement/
chaps, unfortunately, suggestions are not good enough. I think what is sought is legal advice.
With the significant sums of money involved, we need someone to formally find out the background to why multiple people have been told that those now in receipt of AFPS are not going to be considered. If people in service are being deceived as a result of the complete retention car crash that is going to result from further meddling, that is one thing. May I suggest that by not informing these individuals that the advice they have been given is wrong, in fact means their best interests are not being respected?
However, if there is ANY risk that MoD May be taking a line separate to every other public sector body, we need to know so this position can be fought collectively. Pensions society could easily collect extra membership monies specifically for this entire situation, not just for leavers, in order to cover additional legal expenses. There is no need to burn the cash pot. FBU covered their legal action in under 500k, which set a massive precedent. Pensions Society could do it for far less and return a far better deal for their membership than will be by sitting back and waiting for “The Dust to Settle”. I have very little faith in MoD to go for anything else than the pound shop option when we should be pushing for Waitrose.
Last edited by VinRouge; 18th Jan 2020 at 08:28.
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Any decision to limit restorative action to those still serving would contravene the appeal court hearing and would be laughed out of court. But the idea that the organisation that came up with such a blatantly unfair compulsory change in the first place wouldn’t attempt to renege on their responsibilities with an equally naive and ill-researched course of action is not a surprise either. One thing that is a fact is that this is going to take years to sort out not weeks. My supposition is that the bean counters will work out what this potentially costs them, and then they will make an offer to individuals to settle for around 25-35% of what they are owed, in return for a signature stating that is the end of the matter. Many fools who are already resigned to the fact their pension is burned will welcome the injection of funds for a new Discovery Sport and take the money and leave it at that. Not only selling themselves short but converting pension benefit into a one-time purchase or debt-relief gift. Personally, I know roughly what APFS cost me, based on a life expectancy of 85, and if the initial offer is £1 less than my sums then it will be rejected and I’ll see them in court.
Being subject to incompetence and mediocrity at work is one thing, having it rob you of pension benefits in your old age is quite another. And don’t forget by the time I come to claim this pension I will likely as not have to self-fund any social care I might need. So I want my money. They’ve had their service and a court has reminded them of their financial commitments. Now they must meet them.
Being subject to incompetence and mediocrity at work is one thing, having it rob you of pension benefits in your old age is quite another. And don’t forget by the time I come to claim this pension I will likely as not have to self-fund any social care I might need. So I want my money. They’ve had their service and a court has reminded them of their financial commitments. Now they must meet them.
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I and many others will join you. If the compensation amount doesn’t cover lost interest and further compensation at a reasonable rate, and I can demonstrate the entirety of my gratuity and payments have gone paying off mortgage or are currently earning 6%,then I won’t settle.
From FPS:The remedy to the ‘McCloud case’, enters a key phase over the coming weeks.
Our CE, Neil Marshall, will be attending the technical discussions in the Ministry of Defence ahead of a full public consultation scheduled for late Spring/early Summer.
The whole purpose is to ensure that the remedy agreed is appropriate, fair to those discriminated against and covers the entire ‘affected population’; serving and veterans.
Please keep reading the updates on our website and social media and accept that this is incredibly complex, and will take time but it is our 2020 main effort and a solution has to be found.
— — — —
I’m currently down ~ £15K from being forced out of AFPS 75. Should the remedy not be satisfactory, I’m in on the group legal action.
Our CE, Neil Marshall, will be attending the technical discussions in the Ministry of Defence ahead of a full public consultation scheduled for late Spring/early Summer.
The whole purpose is to ensure that the remedy agreed is appropriate, fair to those discriminated against and covers the entire ‘affected population’; serving and veterans.
Please keep reading the updates on our website and social media and accept that this is incredibly complex, and will take time but it is our 2020 main effort and a solution has to be found.
— — — —
I’m currently down ~ £15K from being forced out of AFPS 75. Should the remedy not be satisfactory, I’m in on the group legal action.
#metoo. (But this time it means something more concrete!)
I was forced onto AFPS 15 on 1 April 2015 like everyone else and left at the 38 point 7 months later. So I calculate that is a 2% drop in my AFPS 75 pension earnings.
Let's hope veterans are not shafted.
I was forced onto AFPS 15 on 1 April 2015 like everyone else and left at the 38 point 7 months later. So I calculate that is a 2% drop in my AFPS 75 pension earnings.
Let's hope veterans are not shafted.
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could always be worse you know...
I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
could always be worse you know...
I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
I've had my rather ltd 'erks pension trimmed by some 100 per month due to the diligence (of the now EX snp fiscal giant and grooming nonce) ensuring that I personally help contribute to the international stateswoman Effies continental jaunts with her French lady companion..black eye and all. Apparently.
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An update from the MOD/FPS MOD - FPS Update
Seems that there is to be a public consultation !
"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."
This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
Seems that there is to be a public consultation !
"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."
This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
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An update from the MOD/FPS MOD - FPS Update
Seems that there is to be a public consultation !
"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."
This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
Seems that there is to be a public consultation !
"(3) provides the Member with the full understanding and opportunity to make informed decisions about their financial future."
This surely must mean everyone will get a Pension forecast based on AFPS15 and AFPS (legacy) for them to make a decision from including the consequences of reversion or remaining on 15
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Be interested to see, particularly with rumoured changes to tax relief on pensions in discussion.
In respect of The Armed Forces Pension Society, jolly good show in looking out for our interests.
As for anyone who has proposed previously to serving members that Veterans won’t be being considered (to prevent a retention issue that needs to be fixed with a meaty FRI) - poor form.
Another jolly good show - the firemen and FBU for bringing the McCloud case. If I can revert to AFPS 75 (as I always wanted to remain on), this will be a very significant lump sum and uplift in pension for life. Thank you very much firefighters for effectively representing those without representation.
More likely to leave?
If you take a ( so far undecided) option to rejoin 75 are you more less likely to leave at 55?
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
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If you take a ( so far undecided) option to rejoin 75 are you more less likely to leave at 55?
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
same question if you can return to 05.
Same question to a 75/15 and 05/15 split.
it will present an interesting problem to the planners, and so leaves their jobs even more difficult to forecast. Not that they will be in their present roles to see in the changes.
I see a slow car crash coming, nobody is thinking.
On AFPS05 (or 75) the retirement age is 55. The MOD knew this and hence there was an offer to allign to the NEM so that your service would qualify for a full pension at retirement age - that was an offer to serve to 60 (AFPS15's retirement age) if you had been assimilated after your initial contract.
It didn’t mean you couldn’t leave at 55, but if you did only the legacy part of your pension would be payable at 55. The AFPS15 part would now not be paid until state pension age unless you opted to actuarially commute some of this pension and thus receive a much smaller overall payout.
I think the airships have to look closer at this.... having realised that forcing SP on to 15 meant financial disadvantage if they retired at 55, NEM allignment was the solution. On reversion back to legacy pension schemes negates the need for such NEM allignment, in fact the AP states that service beyond retirement age (continuance) is bespoke to each concerned SP and will be considered on a case by case basis - therefore I think any SP reverting to previous legacy pension TOS who wishes to serve to 60 will not be prevented from doing so and will even be strongly encouraged to do so (Your car crash scenario if they all leave at 55!).
However, those persons who revert must be able to leave at 55 because to be forced to serve to 60 even after aligning under the NEM offer (and I can imagine being told NEM allignment was a choice) would I think be adding to the discrimination suffered by being forced onto AFPS 15 in the first place
Last edited by Jambo Jet; 21st Feb 2020 at 13:12. Reason: grammar
Thank you downsizer for posting that.
There they are, the words I've been waiting to read!:
"This will take time to process, but we are committed to ensuring that all members are treated equally and are able to choose to receive benefits from either their old/legacy scheme (Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) 75, AFPS 05, FTRS 97, RFPS 2005 or NRPS) or new/reformed (AFPS 15) scheme"
Questions remaining now are (1) when and (2) will it really be done fairly, for example: Statutory interest of 8% for late payment? Tax free status of gratuity? Tax liability for those now non-resident in UK and receiving delayed pension income?
There they are, the words I've been waiting to read!:
"This will take time to process, but we are committed to ensuring that all members are treated equally and are able to choose to receive benefits from either their old/legacy scheme (Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) 75, AFPS 05, FTRS 97, RFPS 2005 or NRPS) or new/reformed (AFPS 15) scheme"
Questions remaining now are (1) when and (2) will it really be done fairly, for example: Statutory interest of 8% for late payment? Tax free status of gratuity? Tax liability for those now non-resident in UK and receiving delayed pension income?
All going to be very confusing and probably involve a big colour coded spreadsheet.
So, if you're on 75/15 but on full career commission - will they give you the chance to go on to 05/15 and collect my bonuses?*
*no.
So, if you're on 75/15 but on full career commission - will they give you the chance to go on to 05/15 and collect my bonuses?*
*no.