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AFPS15 - government decision.

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AFPS15 - government decision.

Old 13th Jan 2020, 17:23
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting

At least the NHS have acknowledged the issue and are even throwing money at the problem.

I wonder when the MOD will wake up to it and collectively force the government to backtrack.

Pensions row 'making bad situation worse in NHS' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51092492

BV
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 18:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
At least the NHS have acknowledged the issue and are even throwing money at the problem.

I wonder when the MOD will wake up to it and collectively force the government to backtrack.

Pensions row 'making bad situation worse in NHS' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51092492

BV
ive been advised by an IFA to involve my MP. If somebody focuses on this now it’s a big problem, with those that have left, those about to and those who have years left.
One of the pensions briefings recently mentioned 2025 before it’s all done. People need facts to base their lives on, 1800 days from now how many others will have left?
The crux is the RAF arse on that seat will have been replaced twice by the time we’re expecting decisions and work. The RAF needs scrutiny by MPs on this matter, as it will start to affect retention soon, and that is never a great Sun headline.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:52
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Al, do AF pensions Soc. have an iron in this fire?

I hope MoD realise we are going to come after them for the interest once the dust settles.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:54
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Until now the only reports I’d seen on the doctors’ pension issue suggested that doctors were being offered an equivalent of the AFPS ‘Scheme Pays’ arrangement as an interim measure. However that BBC link from BV states that doctors’ pension pots will be topped up by the Government at some point in future to replace any funds used for annual tax bills. I’m wary of taking journalism as gospel in such matters; does anyone know exactly what the doctors are being offered? (Google has not been my friend in this instance!)

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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:55
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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I'm mulling a PVR.....

Do we think the changes will apply to those that have already left or just those still in service...?

Weirdly this unresolved issue is keeping me IN..!!!
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 20:07
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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My thoughts...

My worry is that whatever MOD come up with (assuming they do offer some financial recompense) will have to be paid for at some point.

I can’t help but keep thinking the safest thing to do is cut and run.

I’m afraid my trust in the MOD started to fail back in 2010 when all the flying training students were made redundant. This latest fiasco feels like the final nail in the coffin.

I just don’t trust them not to mess about with my pension again if I stay in. And this comes from someone who always thought he’d serve until retirement age.

It would be nice to hear something, anything, to attempt to assuage the angst.

BV
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 20:37
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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See I would be better off to go back to full '75 terms. So I am waiting to see if that is an option before pulling the handle....
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 20:37
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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I'm in a similar position to BV, I was happy with 75 pension then due to my circumstances (25 year point when switching to 15) I was even happier as the 15 scheme really increased my pension at age 68 (£5,000 pa extra) and I'd only get slightly less per year up till then compared to 75. I'm holding out hoping that I will be given the choice to stay on 15, i don't want to go back to 75 or anything new that they come up with which will be less no doubt.
How can you plan for the future with absolutely no idea what you'll get? Might be worth going now on a pension I know and I'm happy with?
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 20:22
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4everAD View Post
I'm in a similar position to BV, I was happy with 75 pension then due to my circumstances (25 year point when switching to 15) I was even happier as the 15 scheme really increased my pension at age 68 (£5,000 pa extra) and I'd only get slightly less per year up till then compared to 75. I'm holding out hoping that I will be given the choice to stay on 15, i don't want to go back to 75 or anything new that they come up with which will be less no doubt.
How can you plan for the future with absolutely no idea what you'll get? Might be worth going now on a pension I know and I'm happy with?
From what I understand, and the fact that NO DECISION HAS YET BEEN MADE, the most likely plan will be a retrospective “Offer to Transfer” just like we had in 2005. So there will be a bespoke letter to each person caught up in this with the options and then an ability to choose to go back to/stay on 75 or 05 with another option to transfer to 15. That is what is likely to take the time as those offers will need to be worked out to make sure you are not miss-sold a pension (Ombudsman territory!). Also, as 75 and 05 are closed to new entries then either Legislation will need to pass the Commons, Lords and Royal Assent to make changes or open up “mirror” 75 and 05 schemes for individuals to join. It is a total cluster legacy of the Coalition Government and will take a lot of effort to unf^ck!
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 20:58
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
From what I understand, and the fact that NO DECISION HAS YET BEEN MADE, the most likely plan will be a retrospective “Offer to Transfer” just like we had in 2005. So there will be a bespoke letter to each person caught up in this with the options and then an ability to choose to go back to/stay on 75 or 05 with another option to transfer to 15. That is what is likely to take the time as those offers will need to be worked out to make sure you are not miss-sold a pension (Ombudsman territory!). Also, as 75 and 05 are closed to new entries then either Legislation will need to pass the Commons, Lords and Royal Assent to make changes or open up “mirror” 75 and 05 schemes for individuals to join. It is a total cluster legacy of the Coalition Government and will take a lot of effort to unf^ck!
You are a decision behind the rest of us. Re-read.
I don’t think the commons etc will vote, seeing as it was a court decision. Nobody will be joining a scheme they weren’t part of, either- so no new member of 75/ 05/ 15.
Everyone loves the Serviceman as a victim, but the fact the judges of this land fought for us means it’s a done deal.
Why do you think they were instantly able to say it will cost £4bn?
As I say read the previous threads, then google it. Nobody here is going to do your research.
Then if you’re feeling really lucky ask what your MP has heard, mine knew exactly what I meant straight away.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 21:54
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Countdown begins View Post
You are a decision behind the rest of us. Re-read.
I don’t think the commons etc will vote, seeing as it was a court decision. Nobody will be joining a scheme they weren’t part of, either- so no new member of 75/ 05/ 15.
Everyone loves the Serviceman as a victim, but the fact the judges of this land fought for us means it’s a done deal.
Why do you think they were instantly able to say it will cost £4bn?
As I say read the previous threads, then google it. Nobody here is going to do your research.
Then if you’re feeling really lucky ask what your MP has heard, mine knew exactly what I meant straight away.

The longer it is left, the bigger my lost investment gains claim will get.

By all means, MoD can drag their heels on this, but our pound of flesh will get collectively bigger by the week.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 23:26
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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It’s not as simple as a choice to return to previous pension or transfer to 15. People have made life choices on the back of the migration to 15. Whether that be to leave because of erosion of benefits or to allign to NEM and serve to 60, this was done in good faith and now the goalposts are about to change.

If you have recently accepted PAS then you have agreed to serve to 60, however reverting to 75 or 05 now means you can leave at 55 with a PVR penalty on 75, or not with 05.

None-the-less with a reverted AFPS retirement age of 55 then service beyond that date is now
on continuance terms and not NEM and will need to be renegotiated if you want to do so. Otherwise 55 is your new retirement date and I guess it will be even if a ROS for a training course extends beyond. The AP says an ROS can not extend beyond retirement date

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Old 15th Jan 2020, 07:13
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Countdown begins View Post
You are a decision behind the rest of us. Re-read.
I don’t think the commons etc will vote, seeing as it was a court decision. Nobody will be joining a scheme they weren’t part of, either- so no new member of 75/ 05/ 15.
Everyone loves the Serviceman as a victim, but the fact the judges of this land fought for us means it’s a done deal.
Why do you think they were instantly able to say it will cost £4bn?
As I say read the previous threads, then google it. Nobody here is going to do your research.
Then if you’re feeling really lucky ask what your MP has heard, mine knew exactly what I meant straight away.
My MP is pretty useless to be honest, spending most of their time locally whinging about HS2. But have you actually bothered to speak to the Tri-Service Pay and Pension Policy people to ask their current thoughts on the matter? Because, I have...

You also seem to have failed to grasp that Armed Forces Pensions are UK Law and so they have to go through the Commons, Lords and Royal Assent if you want to make changes. There is no other option in our Constitution as far as I am aware..
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 07:27
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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LJ

You can’t just leave us hanging. What did the SPPP say? Anything useful?

BV
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 07:38
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
You can’t just leave us hanging. What did the SPPP say? Anything useful?

BV
Pretty much what I said above. No decision has been made but the current thinking is it will be fixed via an OTT as I explained - and I have asked twice now! Once in private and once at a remuneration presentation inside the last 3 months.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 07:39
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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As the pension schemes exist I don’t believe you are correct. It matters not, the judges are our top cover, and they’ve beaten UK law.
I haven’t sat at desk top level, no. Perhaps rank precludes that. Again, with rank as a barrier, and the KNOWLEDGE that whoever I could talk to won’t see the problem through( sound familiar?) I will leave it to my MP, who can go direct to the SoS.
What is not being gripped here is that people are making assumptions on family life and careers without the real facts being presented, yet the other schemes are keeping their people informed. If someone finds the hole, a solicitor is going to smell £££. It would be a lot easier if the MOD gave the problem to professionals and not risk inevitable legal action..... which will be heard by the very judiciary that won this for us.
it requires grown-up thinking, not a half baked arrogant response. Trust is hard to earn, easy to lose....
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 07:54
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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LJ

Please excuse my thickness but what is an OTT?

I am not in a position to attend any presentations and am completely in the dark about the whole issue.

BV
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 08:05
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Please excuse my thickness but what is an OTT?

I am not in a position to attend any presentations and am completely in the dark about the whole issue.

BV
BV - I'm ill informed as well but I think Offer To Transfer - i.e. would you like to move back or stay on your current scheme.

As to the above point about UK law, I believe that the point being made is that the configuration of AFPS is a matter for UK law, so even though the legal precedent may have been set for change (judges, fire fighters etc), that change will take considerable effort to execute in law. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone!
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 08:26
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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OTT

Of course. I was being thick.

For anyone who can remember AFPS 75 can you give me a quick heads up of the benefits of leaving on that vice AFPS 75/15?

I had 15.5 years AFPS75 before the transfer. So basically all of it.

If I were to leave within a year or two (21-22 years of service and currently PAS) I’m guessing the big difference would be that the full pension would kick in at 55 instead of 68?

What would it do to the lump sum?

For once I actually wish I’d been able to attend a presentation!

BV
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:10
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Of course. I was being thick.

For anyone who can remember AFPS 75 can you give me a quick heads up of the benefits of leaving on that vice AFPS 75/15?

I had 15.5 years AFPS75 before the transfer. So basically all of it.

If I were to leave within a year or two (21-22 years of service and currently PAS) I’m guessing the big difference would be that the full pension would kick in at 55 instead of 68?

What would it do to the lump sum?

For once I actually wish I’d been able to attend a presentation!

BV
Hello BV,

I also have 15.5 years 75 with the remainder on 15. A useful comparison here is to run your numbers on the pension calculator and then compare to the AFPS 75 pension codes that can be found online (just Google it) you will be able to see what 21/22 years of 75 will give you on leaving with the gratuity being x 3 this amount.
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