Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

MoD may destroy Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash records

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

MoD may destroy Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash records

Old 22nd Jan 2019, 15:28
  #1 (permalink)  
A really irritating PPRuNer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Just popping my head back up above the parapet
Posts: 904
Exclamation MoD may destroy Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash records

Well, I never thought I would be posting here again so hello, and Happy New Year, to all who may remember me.

This year sees 25 years since that terrible crash and it would appear that the MoD are considering disposing of all records relating to the crash and subsequent 17 year campaign to clear Rick and Jon's name. There is an article in the Scottish Times about this (can't link, sorry).

I don't feel the need (or desire) to revisit the crash and campaign itself as I feel that everyone has rightly moved on, but am seeking support in ensuring all documentation relating to this sorry episode is retained in the National Archive. To that end, I have raised an on-line petition and would seek your support. If you feel the urge, may I also ask you to send the link / write to your MP and make them aware. The petition can be found here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...cVXGrUSykC6kMc


Wording of the petition is:

My petition:

Ensure ALL records relating to the Chinook crash in 1994 are archived at Kew
The Chinook crash on the Mull of Kintyre, on 2 June 1994, resulted in the loss of 29 souls. The pilots of the Chinook were wrongly blamed for the accident, resulting in a 17 year fight to clear their names. It was eventually proved that the MoD had wrongly blamed the deceased pilots.

This 17 year miscarriage of justice brought about immense public support, several Parliamentary debates in both Houses, EDMs, reports from the National Audit Office and countless items of correspondence to, and from, the Ministry of Defence. Collectively, this is an important record of MoD, and RAF, failings and the loss of this would be detrimental to providing important learning opportunities for future military leaders.
---------

Please forgive my intrusion on the Forum. I assure you all that I have no intention of becoming the Irritating Sod once again! This is just a short spell back in the spotlight.
My best to you all, as always.
Brian
Brian Dixon is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 16:15
  #2 (permalink)  
vincit veritas
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 35
Welcome back
XM147 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 16:35
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hotel Gypsy
Posts: 2,714
Yes, this one is too important to be lost.
Cows getting bigger is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 16:42
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: England
Posts: 282
Signed - It is important that future researchers can access the details of this important event.

EG
ExGrunt is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 17:00
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Urcal (Almeria)
Posts: 19
Surely always welcome. Signed (04691).
cafesolo is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 17:15
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,060
Hi Brian! Hope all's well with you - I've also signed.
BEagle is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 17:31
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: RWB, UK
Age: 72
Posts: 59
Just signed. Funny smell if they want to destroy the records of an accident that generated so much controversy.
Petition says that only 5 more signatures needed to go "live".
1066
1066 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 17:34
  #8 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 55
Posts: 5,126
Got this message - will gladly sign it when it's made available again...

We’re checking this petition

5 people have already supported Brian Dixon’s petition.

We need to check it meets the petition standards before we publish it.

Please try again in a few days.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 18:17
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Fresno
Age: 69
Posts: 246
"It would appear that the MoD are considering disposing of all records relating to the crash."

Now, why would they do that?
Thud105 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 18:24
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 39
Posts: 730
Is there any hard evidence e.g. factual statements to support these assertions, or is it hearsay and rumour?
Jimlad1 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 19:30
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Anglia
Posts: 1,859

We’re checking this petition

5 people have already supported Brian Dixon’s petition.

We need to check it meets the petition standards before we publish it.

Please try again in a few days.



More than willing to help. See you in a few days!
Rigga is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 20:12
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 2,769
Is there any hard evidence e.g. factual statements to support these assertions, or is it hearsay and rumour?
Current issue arises from this, in Hansard...

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...t/00626w01.htm

Lord Chalfont asked Her Majesty's Government:
  • Whether any papers or documents relating to the crash of Chinook Helicopter ZD 576 have been or are being destroyed; and, if so, whether they will ensure that there is no further such destruction.[HL2738]
  • Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: None of the original Board of Inquiry papers, written evidence or papers held by the branch with lead responsibility for matters concerning the crash has been destroyed. When they are eventually archived, they will be assigned a review date of 25 years, with a recommendation for permanent retention. At the 25-year point they will be examined for the suitability for transfer to the Public Record Office in accordance with the provision of the Public Records Act 1958 and 1967.

    26 Jun 2000 : Column WA52

But the lead branch (the Chinook Integrated Project Team) did not hold the most relevant evidence, because the Directorate of the Air Staff and Air Member Logistics had concealed it from them. The reply does not preclude destruction by the Air Staff or Air Member Logistics’ successors of that evidence - and that is what they did.

By the time of the Mull of Kintyre Review, MoD was denying the very existence of key evidence, such as the Release to Service and the policy statement that the FADEC software was safety critical. It had lied to families about both. Both documents had to be supplied to Lord Philip by campaigners.



tucumseh is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 20:18
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 1,212
Brian! Your presence is always welcomed and valued, even if it's a harbinger for more potential MoD misdeeds. Will also be checking back onto the petition website in a few days.

(we're prepping the house for forthcoming-retirement-related move back to Devon, and I was going through old paperwork. Found the GW1 inoculation certificates which you wisely suggested we hang onto, in direct contradiction to the 'request' from above; have always trusted your judgment )
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 20:54
  #14 (permalink)  
A really irritating PPRuNer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Just popping my head back up above the parapet
Posts: 904
Thanks everyone for the welcomes and especially for the support.
T&B, let me know when you are back in Devon and settled, I'm sure I can get the motorbike out on a sunny day and ride over that way.

I can confirm that 20 people have been acknowledged as supporting the petition before it was taken off-line for 'assessment' (don't hold your breath, I may have set a claxon off somewhere!), so thank you to those individuals. As soon as it is back on line, please sign up and get friends and family to do so too please.

Jimlad1 - the attachments should show you where I got the information from (if I can remember how to do it).

As always, many thanks all, for your support.
Brian


Taken from the Scottish Times

Taken from the Scottish Times
Brian Dixon is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2019, 22:26
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 9
Petition? Take out an injuction that all records are tx to Kew and are open.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:55
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,021
Waiting to sign when possible.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2019, 17:35
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 3,994
Me too, and I wonder how many petitions are put on hold like this while they are checked 'for a few days'?

Good to see you still pushing back Brian Dixon! Those who might think that Mull was all done and dusted with SoS Liam Fox's statement to the HoC should ask themselves if the two deceased JO pilots blamed by the Air Rank Reviewing Officers were not Grossly Negligent, then who was? For 29 people died in this tragedy due to such Gross Negligence that has been the subject of a cover up ever since.

Another link here:-

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/tr...year-1-8776839
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2019, 21:07
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 994
Waiting to sign also!
Out Of Trim is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 09:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SWAPS Inner
Posts: 525
Likewise. Too important to be swept under the table.
thunderbird7 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2019, 10:16
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 2,769
Lady Sylvia Hermon MP (North Down), whose late husband was RUC Chief Constable Jack Hermon, has tabled questions in the House. Well done the RUC widows.
tucumseh is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.