Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F-18 lightning strike

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F-18 lightning strike

Old 3rd Jan 2019, 10:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 15,975
F-18 lightning strike

That made him jump


https://www.rt.com/news/447785-lightning-strike-fighter-jet/?utm_source=miximedia&utm_medium=miximedia&utm_campaign=Mixi media
NutLoose is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 10:58
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,133
I wonder if the seat cushion was ever recovered?

-RP
Rhino power is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:20
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1
I suspect that his mask is masking a few expletives there!
Pure Pursuit is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 06:59
  #4 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's my turn
Posts: 1,701
Great reaction time, ducking after the zap
Chesty Morgan is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 08:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 525
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
Great reaction time, ducking after the zap
Did you expect him to duck before it?!

I'm sure that when you fly fast jets you can see lightning coming and move out the way?

OvertHawk is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 08:26
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,615
OvertHawk

What exactly do you mean by ‘you can see lightning coming’?

Are you suggesting we should have some form of superpower or am I missing something obvious?

BV

Last edited by Bob Viking; 4th Jan 2019 at 09:37.
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 08:44
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 15,975
The obvious, he was being sarcastic to the reply previous.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 09:02
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 213
What effect does a lightning strike have on carbon fibre composite structures, if any?
57mm is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 09:19
  #9 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's my turn
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by OvertHawk View Post
Did you expect him to duck before it?!

I'm sure that when you fly fast jets you can see lightning coming and move out the way?

There's always one.
Chesty Morgan is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 09:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,615
Nutty

My sarcasm filter levels have been adjusted accordingly. 🤪

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 15:19
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,475
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
There's always one.
Per your tag line, it’s your turn.
West Coast is online now  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 21:41
  #12 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's my turn
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post


Per your tag line, it’s your turn.
Translation please.
Chesty Morgan is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:22
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,475
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
Translation please.
Mỗi dňng thẻ của bạn, đến lượt bạn.
West Coast is online now  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:32
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 74
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
What effect does a lightning strike have on carbon fibre composite structures, if any?
Most aircraft carbon fiber ' structures " and panels have built in conductive ' layer' or embeded ' metallic fibers- inks- ' or similar. penetrations which may cause sparking sometimes require special care and features.

Effects other than burn marks and surface 'roughness ' are minimal and rarely structurally significant.
CONSO is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:41
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
What effect does a lightning strike have on carbon fibre composite structures, if any?
It's more likely to do damage on carbon fiber composites than on aluminum (or other metals). Carbon conducts electricity fairly well, but has a much higher electrical resistance than aluminum (about two orders of magnitude if I recall correctly). This means there is much more local heating due to the strike and hence greater potential for damage.
I don't know about the F-18, but on the 787 there is a copper wire mesh incorporated into the composite layup during build to improve the electrical resistance and hence improve it's lightning protection. I suspect they do something similar on the F-18.
Shortly before I retired, I was observing a flight test on a 767 when we took a lightning strike during our descent to Paine (i.e. Everett). I was in the flight deck observing EICAS indications for my test when it happened - it didn't literally scare the crap out of me, but it came close
Based on the post flight inspection, it attached near the cockpit and exited at the wing root - doing a fair amount of damage to the (composite) wing-body fairing.
tdracer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:56
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 74
Posts: 1
I don't know about the F-18, but on the 787 there is a copper wire mesh incorporated into the composite layup during build to improve the electrical resistance and hence improve it's lightning protection.
And similar arrangement on the A-6 carbon fiber re- wings built by Boeing a few decades ago . There was/and is a lot of public available papers and research on lightning strike protection on carbon fiber structural panels and the effects. And there is also a limited amount of related published information on an virtually all fiber ' paneled ' military airplane built in the 80's - a 3 foot model of which is on a pedestal across the street from the " Red Barn " portion of the Museum of Flight wuztheredunthat

And although it is not me- the following link may be of help explaining

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050213278

Last edited by CONSO; 4th Jan 2019 at 23:09.
CONSO is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 08:03
  #17 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,593
It's the first bang that gets you. After two or three you get used to it.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 08:21
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 773
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
Translation please.
Why do you really have to spell it out for some people?
gijoe is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 14:53
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
It's more likely to do damage on carbon fiber composites than on aluminum (or other metals). Carbon conducts electricity fairly well, but has a much higher electrical resistance than aluminum (about two orders of magnitude if I recall correctly). This means there is much more local heating due to the strike and hence greater potential for damage.
I don't know about the F-18, but on the 787 there is a copper wire mesh incorporated into the composite layup during build to improve the electrical resistance and hence improve it's lightning protection. I suspect they do something similar on the F-18.
Shortly before I retired, I was observing a flight test on a 767 when we took a lightning strike during our descent to Paine (i.e. Everett). I was in the flight deck observing EICAS indications for my test when it happened - it didn't literally scare the crap out of me, but it came close
Based on the post flight inspection, it attached near the cockpit and exited at the wing root - doing a fair amount of damage to the (composite) wing-body fairing.
Back when the 787 was being developed, there was a fair amount of debate as to exactly how much metal Boeing were going to have to put into this lightning protection layer. Obviously the more the put in, the heavier it was going to be, but it would be better able to deal with a lightning strike. I also recall that it had to be put in the very outer layer, so that heating of the metal layer didn't damage the structural strength of the CF itself.

Airbus's use of GLARE is quite interesting - it's still aluminium from the point of view of lightning tolerance / metal working, but it's a whole lot lighter than plain aluminium. Not a bad way to have gone about things (for the A380, which is where they used it).

On the A350 I think (corrections most welcome for my hazy memory) Airbus went for ribbons of thin metal tape wrapped around the airframe to form a sparse metal cage, instead of a fine mesh layered everywhere. I suspect that this works quite well. The lightning is going to preferentially strike / depart from sharp bits of airframe (the charge gets concentrated there), so it's probably quite easy to have sufficient metal at these points to protect any CF structure underneath.

Regardless of which approach is best, it seems that we're not having either 787s or A350s falling out of the sky or being grounded by lightning strikes. I presume that by now one or two must have got a zap.
msbbarratt is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 19:36
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 74
Posts: 1
RE major composite structures which have been flying for over two decades in commercial this may 2004 article may help


https://www.boeing.com/news/frontier...may/i_ca3.html

In 1992, Boeing opened the state-of-the-art facility to provide composites solutions for the Boeing 777 empennage, which is made up of the vertical fin and horizontal stabilizer. Now just over a decade later, Structural Composites Frederickson is getting ready to celebrate the milestone delivery of its 500th 777 empennage.Part of the Fabrication Division for Boeing Commercial Airplanes, Structural Composites Frederickson today is focusing its manufacturing excellence for primary and secondary composite wing-like structures on a new dream: the Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner.
CONSO is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.