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Tornado GR4 last flight

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Tornado GR4 last flight

Old 16th Mar 2019, 10:25
  #341 (permalink)  
 
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Typerated

I know we all like to reminisce and have fond memories of our previous aircraft but can you honestly say you would have wanted to see Buccaneers (of any state of modification) in RAF service in 2019?!

I agree that Strike Eagles would have been awesome but buying off the shelf is never attractive to governments.

Lets face it, despite the banter, the Tornado did a sterling job for four decades but even a solid workhorse such as that has to pass into history eventually.

It was Gulf War videos of the GR1 in action that cemented my future career choice so it’ll always have a special place in my heart, even if I never got to fly it.

Now I look back at those same videos and cherish the Jaguar segments instead of course.

BV
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 10:36
  #342 (permalink)  
 
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BV,

New build Buccs in the 80's with Tornado avionics - why not?
What advantage would Tornado have had over these (apart from dash speed when clean)? I can think of lots of disadvantages!

Interesting the USAF is looking to buy new F-15s - which could well see them past 2050... maybe slip to 2060??? Surely not eagles getting near 100 years since first flight??

So Buccs at 2019 does not sound so bad?
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 13:16
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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I liked the Banana as much as the next guy but the mythical idea of stuffing it with a complete set of Tornado avionics is just that. Even if it did all fit you would still have a Bucc wrapper with the all the limitations therein. Also not sure why anyone would bring a hypothetical aircraft to a thread dedicated to an aircraft that was flown in UK service for 40 years!
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 13:31
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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And you would have needed an entirely new flight control system if you wanted auto TF. Bravo Tornado and all who flew , maintained and operated it. RIP those who gave their lives in it.
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 14:25
  #345 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post

New build Buccs in the 80's with Tornado avionics - why not?
What advantage would Tornado have had over these (apart from dash speed when clean)? I can think of lots of disadvantages!
The one considerable advantage that the Tornado had over the Buccaneer was the type of stores that it could carry. In the bomb bay the Buccaneer was limited to 1000 lb bombs with Mk 114 or 117 tails, BL755 and WE177. Paveway II, missiles (Sea Eagle and Martel) and the targeting pod all had to be carried on the wing which inevitably would mean losing the underwing tanks (3000 lbs of fuel) and/or the ECM pod. It did have ALE40 under the engine bays for chaff and flares rather than the BOZ pod on the wing but let's not get into their relative effectiveness. The Tornado carried A-A missiles and/or ALARM on the shoulders of the inboard pylons which could never have been done with the Buccaneer underwing tanks; the Bucc carried AIM9s on the outboard wing pylons only. It could never have carried JP233 or Raptor and probably not Paveway III. Does that answer your question?

Do I have the background to justify the above? Flew Buccs overland and maritime, on Ops and was a QWI. Then flew Tornado for 30 years in flight test.

Rgds

L
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 14:36
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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So then...

I think a few others, far more knowledgeable on Tornado than I, seem to agree with my sentiment.

I can can relax and enjoy the rugby now.

BV
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 17:18
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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My knowledge pales in comparison to Lomcevak's but the main ingredient that kept the Buccaneer relevant for so long was the guile and cunning of the crews and the legendary support and miracle working provided by the groundcrew.

The list of basic things the Bucc didn't have were inconvenient but when the aircraft was dressed for ops the stores limitations hit home. If you were happy to have little or no chaff then you could go without a chaff pod, otherwise you lost a pylon. Add an ECM pod and you lost another of your 4. Just a single sidewinder took another. Leaving you with one pylon and fuel in the bay and/or door. Hang a Pave Spike off this last pylon gave you zero offensive weapons, not even a gun.

Mixed loads in a 4-ship got you so far and in gulf war 1 some creative fits with ALE40 chaff/flare, ECM, Sidewinder, pod and a single asymmetric slipper tank looked odd, but did the business. When the air threat subsided the crews went without the Sidewinder and therefore could carry a single LGB and self-designate.

I would offer that it was the crews, both air and ground, and the character of the Buccaneer that made it all special. Same for the Tornado - when I look back at my time on the GR version I only ever think of the people I was with, but the aircraft was a flexible and dependable part of that mix.
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 17:40
  #348 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jetset Jimbo View Post
Dad was a Tornado test pilot - he was killed in June 1979 flying a prototype when I was a little boy. A thread to remember all those who gave their lives to Tornado would be a good thing to my mind.
Hi Jimbo. Very sad to read you lost your Dad in that accident. You will no doubt know that he was making an important contribution to an aircraft that became part of daily life for many of us, and which has performed admirably through four decades of service. Unfortunately, that enterprise came at a great personal cost to some, and their loved ones. But, the efforts of people like your Dad made the Tornado a tremendous tool for the job that it had to do. Best wishes.

OAP

Last edited by Onceapilot; 17th Mar 2019 at 15:13.
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 14:43
  #349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I know we all like to reminisce and have fond memories of our previous aircraft but can you honestly say you would have wanted to see Buccaneers (of any state of modification) in RAF service in 2019?!

I agree that Strike Eagles would have been awesome but buying off the shelf is never attractive to governments.

Lets face it, despite the banter, the Tornado did a sterling job for four decades but even a solid workhorse such as that has to pass into history eventually.

It was Gulf War videos of the GR1 in action that cemented my future career choice so it’ll always have a special place in my heart, even if I never got to fly it.

Now I look back at those same videos and cherish the Jaguar segments instead of course.

BV
Nobody said we had to like the fact the Tornado is now gone, however. I certainly don't.

Fighters are more my thing but the Tornado is one of the jets that cemented my passion for aeroplanes. I'll always love it.
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 15:00
  #350 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Onceapilot View Post
Hi Jimbo. Very sad to read you lost your Dad in that accident. You will no doubt know that he was making an important contribution to an aircraft that became part of daily life for many of us, and which has performed admirably through four decades of service. Unfortunately, that enterprise came a great personal cost to some, and their loved ones. But, the efforts of people like your Dad made the Tornado a tremendous tool for the job that it had to do. Best wishes.

OAP
Very well said and I echo your words and feelings.
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 17:00
  #351 (permalink)  
 
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The P.150, a development of the Buccaneer, was proposed in 1968. It was to have had a thin wing, modified radar, a fully revised digital inertial nav/attack system and would have been powered by Spey engines with reheat. Whether it would have been as successful as the Tornado is hard to say.

Although TSR.2 would have had considerably more range than Tornado and would have been far superior at high level, it wouldn't have had the excellent all round versatility of Tornado. But it looked much nicer!
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 18:11
  #352 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
The P.150, a development of the Buccaneer, was proposed in 1968. It was to have had a thin wing, modified radar, a fully revised digital inertial nav/attack system and would have been powered by Spey engines with reheat. Whether it would have been as successful as the Tornado is hard to say.

Although TSR.2 would have had considerably more range than Tornado and would have been far superior at high level, it wouldn't have had the excellent all round versatility of Tornado. But it looked much nicer!
I thought you needed 20/20 vision to be a pilot!

TSR.2 is one ugly beast. The Tornado by comparison is stunning. The F.3 even more so.... a lean, mean, fighting machine.......
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 19:53
  #353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
The P.150, a development of the Buccaneer, was proposed in 1968. It was to have had a thin wing, modified radar, a fully revised digital inertial nav/attack system and would have been powered by Spey engines with reheat. Whether it would have been as successful as the Tornado is hard to say.

Although TSR.2 would have had considerably more range than Tornado and would have been far superior at high level, it wouldn't have had the excellent all round versatility of Tornado. But it looked much nicer!
You should have gone to Specsavers.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 07:46
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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Must have funny glasses

Tornado - Fin too big or the Fuse too short?
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 10:19
  #355 (permalink)  
 
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TORNADO
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:46
  #356 (permalink)  
 
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Tornado Tales

I hope no one minds this post (it's non-commercial) but tonight we have posted a collection of Tornado stories as our latest feature to help mark the aircraft's retirement.

There are some good yarns here and I am very grateful to everyone who helped out.

Farewell Tornado ? Tornado Tales | GAR - We've got aviation covered
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 18:50
  #357 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Must have funny glasses

Tornado - Fin too big or the Fuse too short?
Any aircraft can look bad from certain directions.

This angle in bat wing always looked good to me...

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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:30
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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So when is the last UK Tornado flight going to be? The airframes destined to be used at Cosford for techie training are surely going to be ferried in there - aren't they?
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 22:43
  #359 (permalink)  
 
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‘Form follows function’; Tornado ‘functioned’ - extremely well, thus ‘form’ was correct for that function.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 04:52
  #360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1.3VStall View Post
So when is the last UK Tornado flight going to be? The airframes destined to be used at Cosford for techie training are surely going to be ferried in there - aren't they?
I would imagine if they're not delivered by 31 Mar then the only way to get them to Cosford (or anywhere else) will be on the back of a lorry.
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