What would a Helicopter designed primarily to fight other Helicopters look like?
"Fast and low over the top of the wretched things was something we were advised.." - Easy to say, very difficult to effect if the helo crew has even a half decent SA/lookout/RWR (and assuming you can even see the helo visually or on radar….). But, please, feel free to try to fly straight at my M134 and see what 3000rpm looks like coming back at you as a non-manoeuvring target….
ShyTorque - last time I taught it, "affil" was titled "Evasion Training - Helo v Fighter" - ET (HvF) or ET (HvH) if having a knife fight in a phone box with another helo. Little has changed - you still spend most of the sortie calling on the jet. Spent a very frustrating instructional trip against a pair of Typhoons trying to make myself as obvious as I could and still called them on 9 times out of 10…..Of all the many jets I played with, the Harrier/Alfa Jet were the hardest non-radar opponents and a well-flown pair of OEU F3s were probably the hardest AI-jet to counter (especially once they got ASRAAM….). Would have loved to have fought the A10 though…….
ShyTorque - last time I taught it, "affil" was titled "Evasion Training - Helo v Fighter" - ET (HvF) or ET (HvH) if having a knife fight in a phone box with another helo. Little has changed - you still spend most of the sortie calling on the jet. Spent a very frustrating instructional trip against a pair of Typhoons trying to make myself as obvious as I could and still called them on 9 times out of 10…..Of all the many jets I played with, the Harrier/Alfa Jet were the hardest non-radar opponents and a well-flown pair of OEU F3s were probably the hardest AI-jet to counter (especially once they got ASRAAM….). Would have loved to have fought the A10 though…….
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I seem to recall most helo affil being guns only - the brief usually included some helo mate trotting out the same old nonsense that we wouldn’t waste an AMRAAM on them. Like there are enough kills per generation to pass one up based on cost of the weapon.
They always looked crest fallen when you reminded them that weaponry didn’t go on your mess bill and you would sure as hell use the slammer given a nano percent of a chance.
They always looked crest fallen when you reminded them that weaponry didn’t go on your mess bill and you would sure as hell use the slammer given a nano percent of a chance.
"Fast and low over the top of the wretched things was something we were advised.." - Easy to say, very difficult to effect if the helo crew has even a half decent SA/lookout/RWR (and assuming you can even see the helo visually or on radar….). But, please, feel free to try to fly straight at my M134 and see what 3000rpm looks like coming back at you as a non-manoeuvring target….
ShyTorque - last time I taught it, "affil" was titled "Evasion Training - Helo v Fighter" - ET (HvF) or ET (HvH) if having a knife fight in a phone box with another helo. Little has changed - you still spend most of the sortie calling on the jet. Spent a very frustrating instructional trip against a pair of Typhoons trying to make myself as obvious as I could and still called them on 9 times out of 10…..Of all the many jets I played with, the Harrier/Alfa Jet were the hardest non-radar opponents and a well-flown pair of OEU F3s were probably the hardest AI-jet to counter (especially once they got ASRAAM….). Would have loved to have fought the A10 though…….
ShyTorque - last time I taught it, "affil" was titled "Evasion Training - Helo v Fighter" - ET (HvF) or ET (HvH) if having a knife fight in a phone box with another helo. Little has changed - you still spend most of the sortie calling on the jet. Spent a very frustrating instructional trip against a pair of Typhoons trying to make myself as obvious as I could and still called them on 9 times out of 10…..Of all the many jets I played with, the Harrier/Alfa Jet were the hardest non-radar opponents and a well-flown pair of OEU F3s were probably the hardest AI-jet to counter (especially once they got ASRAAM….). Would have loved to have fought the A10 though…….
As a long time Helicopter pilot....I would NEVER want to be confronted by an A-10 seeking to kill me.....as the odds would be very much in the A-10's favor I would think.
Now if I were in a MD-500 and there was a Coal Mine to hide inside.....perhaps.
Now if I were in a MD-500 and there was a Coal Mine to hide inside.....perhaps.
But the A-10 is not a helo...
Happy Xmas All
In Christy Campbell’s Airland Battle 2000, in the conclusion of the book he mentions the Phalanx Dragon
As potential for anti WarPac Mil-24
cheers
As potential for anti WarPac Mil-24
cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 25th Dec 2018 at 11:11.
Avoid imitations
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All that's needed is a false drone sighting report. Everyone then gets grounded.
British helicopter pilots in Cold War Germany (myself included) were rather worried about the Hind and the Frogfoot.
In the Falklands war crews were rather worried about meeting up with the Pucara, especially if there were two.
I agree about the KA-52, or anything else with armament; all I had easily to hand was my 9mm pistol.....
In the Falklands war crews were rather worried about meeting up with the Pucara, especially if there were two.
I agree about the KA-52, or anything else with armament; all I had easily to hand was my 9mm pistol.....
Cheers
KA-52 Le Bourget 2013
Happy Xmas all I was on business at Paris Airshwo 2013 thus here are my photos of Russian Helicopters KA-52 making its first international airshow debut.
i think the weapons on the port side are their SA-14 AAMs?
cheers
i think the weapons on the port side are their SA-14 AAMs?
cheers
Designing a helicopter to fight a helicopter surely puts you under similar constraints and limitations?
Anybody else know the story from the mid 60's of the Wessex being brought down by a bow and arrow in the Far East.?
Apparently an arrow was fired through the tail rotor disc whilst in a low hover.,The arrow being attached to a length of steel wire .
I heard this story out of Westlands at the time , with other concerns then being of the development of anti - helicopter AAMs homing in on radar doppler returns from the main rotor disc.
Anybody else know the story from the mid 60's of the Wessex being brought down by a bow and arrow in the Far East.?
Apparently an arrow was fired through the tail rotor disc whilst in a low hover.,The arrow being attached to a length of steel wire .
I heard this story out of Westlands at the time , with other concerns then being of the development of anti - helicopter AAMs homing in on radar doppler returns from the main rotor disc.
Last edited by Haraka; 25th Dec 2018 at 12:32.
Thread drift I know but my first helo kill was "fast and low over the top", quickly followed by a guns kill and then blowing the tail off a third that had landed.
Ah, them was the days! Swing the lamp.
Mog
Ah, them was the days! Swing the lamp.
Mog
Given enough tree-cover and terrain, plus a good knowledge of your deployment area you could probably evade a singleton to the point he got bored and poked-off, but a pair of slow jets intent on taking you out might be a different proposition. Or an A-10 who would cheerfully follow you down fire-breaks in forestry blocks...
Kaman UH-2C carrying AIM-7
Here is an oddity for you, in early 1970s the USN did trials with arming UH-2C Seasprite with AIM-7 Sparrow...
Cheers
Cheers
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I know that arrows have been shot with fishing line attached to them (Between the twin towers to facilitate the rigging of a full size cable for the "Man on a wire" spectacle) but I find it hard to believe that an arrow could carry a steel wire thick enough to stop a tail rotor assembly.
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Winds the whole length of wire between stationary and rotating parts of the tail rotor hub? (Like a length of blue plastic baler twine picked up by a rotary lawnmower.)
Considering the formula/rules of the made-for-entertainment contest between Battlebots: They joust and saw and crash and flip and hammer and shoot fire and push eachother into grinding hazards. (Maybe more...only watched a couple episodes a few years back.) Entanglement is not allowed.
There's a lot of mechanism to snag and jam in the rotor hubs of that KA-52. (Thanks for great photos.)
Considering the formula/rules of the made-for-entertainment contest between Battlebots: They joust and saw and crash and flip and hammer and shoot fire and push eachother into grinding hazards. (Maybe more...only watched a couple episodes a few years back.) Entanglement is not allowed.
There's a lot of mechanism to snag and jam in the rotor hubs of that KA-52. (Thanks for great photos.)
Last edited by dogsridewith; 29th Dec 2018 at 01:29.