Quick question - RAF officer's cummerbund?
Thread Starter
Quick question - RAF officer's cummerbund?
Just digging around a drawer and I have discovered a light blue cummerbund, with three pleats. Did we ever wear such a thing with mess dress, either number 5 or tropical? The only photo I have of myself in the latter shows me wearing a dark blue/grey cummerbund , but not this thing. Was it something we wore with DJs maybe. Mine has an Alkit label, and 36" waist size tag - shows you how old it is 
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Yes, we wore them as an alternative to the proper waistcoat. Unless you were Regt, or on a FJ sqn, in which case you wore aomething ostentatious. Tropical option for 5a, unless in 5b with the white waistoat?
With a DJ one dressed better ... hopefully! I have a large collection of DJ waistcoats that no longer fit, plus of course the black silk cummerbund. All down to the occasion, of course!
I still have mine. Offers over £5 will cover postage!
With a DJ one dressed better ... hopefully! I have a large collection of DJ waistcoats that no longer fit, plus of course the black silk cummerbund. All down to the occasion, of course!
I still have mine. Offers over £5 will cover postage!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The blue cummerbund actually replaced the waistcoat. Then sometime later, 2-3 years I think, it was decreed that those who still had waistcoats could wear them again. As waistcoats were only optional they were not provided in initial kit, then full circle and they were scaled again. Probably fitted in with a senior officer's retirement.
The vile pale blue cummerbund was standard for a while, then blue waistcoats were allowed to be worn again. Most real squadrons had their own cummerbunds, but then 'They' decided that we all had to look the same - so blue waistcoats became mandatory again (without any re-kitting allowance, of course)...
...or so 'They' expected. But the rule was given a stiff ignoring, as most real squadrons decided that individualism was preferable and to hell with the consequences - if the PMC expected anyone to volunteer for Dining-In Nights, that is.
I've just found that duck egg blue Alkit thing and what a dreadful piece of rubbish it truly was. The gaudy red-and-white chequered cummerbund our 56(F) spam exchange officer's wife made looks so much smarter! As does my 101 Sqn cummerbund and tie.
But I haven't been to a formal dinner for a few years now - in any case, DJ and mess kit trousers shrink when left unworn in a wardrobe, it seems!
...or so 'They' expected. But the rule was given a stiff ignoring, as most real squadrons decided that individualism was preferable and to hell with the consequences - if the PMC expected anyone to volunteer for Dining-In Nights, that is.
I've just found that duck egg blue Alkit thing and what a dreadful piece of rubbish it truly was. The gaudy red-and-white chequered cummerbund our 56(F) spam exchange officer's wife made looks so much smarter! As does my 101 Sqn cummerbund and tie.
But I haven't been to a formal dinner for a few years now - in any case, DJ and mess kit trousers shrink when left unworn in a wardrobe, it seems!
It happens to civvies too.
About 20 years ago I had two beautiful suits built by a little tailor in the Dales [two because one seemed so reasonably priced].
Each was worn about twice a year, then once, then not at all.
They shrunk beyond belief in a clean wardrobe in a modern house in a dry part of the country.
They went to a charity shop last year.
There is something sinister happening in our wardrobes, more immediately consequential than Brexit.
About 20 years ago I had two beautiful suits built by a little tailor in the Dales [two because one seemed so reasonably priced].
Each was worn about twice a year, then once, then not at all.
They shrunk beyond belief in a clean wardrobe in a modern house in a dry part of the country.
They went to a charity shop last year.
There is something sinister happening in our wardrobes, more immediately consequential than Brexit.
Thread Starter
Thanks a lot chaps, I just didn't recognise it when I saw it. Times certainly changed during my service - when I was first commissioned we were still wearing the old white waistcoat for Ladies Guest Nights. I wonder what happened to that? At Catterick one of the chaps wore the old tight mess overalls with the elastic straps over patent leather boots (not shoes). Such ostentation was frowned upon by the PMC but as the chap had a private income and didnt give a bugger about petty regulations he carried on wearing them.
Indeed TTN. White waistcoat and stiff collar. In its defence, the cummerbund was arguably a bit more comfortable on a hot evening.
I never quite got the hang of tying a single-ended bow tie though!
I never quite got the hang of tying a single-ended bow tie though!
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There is the apocryphal story of the very junior RAF Regiment officer, newly graduated from Cranwell, who was sent to Buckingham Palace when the QCS carried out changing of the guard for a couple of weeks. Needless to say, he took along his mess kit as ordered, and found himself at Dinner with the family (it was customary for the off duty guard commander to dine during the deployment to the Palace). The poor chap knew nothing about horses and corgis and was a little short of conversation so Prince Phillip decided to break the ice:
"Tell me, young man. All of our Army chaps have lots of different uniforms for dining and yet you RAF chaps only seem to have just the one".
" Oh well sir, this is the 5b dress with a soft shirt and blue waistcoat, but we can also wear the 5a dress which has a stiff white shirt with wing collar and a white waistcoat - but we only wear that one for special occasions..."
Cue an explosion of laughter into the soup.
"Tell me, young man. All of our Army chaps have lots of different uniforms for dining and yet you RAF chaps only seem to have just the one".
" Oh well sir, this is the 5b dress with a soft shirt and blue waistcoat, but we can also wear the 5a dress which has a stiff white shirt with wing collar and a white waistcoat - but we only wear that one for special occasions..."
Cue an explosion of laughter into the soup.
Apparently that story came from the Prince of Wales who, after the young Rock had said that the white waistcoat was only worn on 'special occasions', allegedly continued "Such as dining with the Queen?".
The stiff fronted shirt, wing collar and white waistcoat was utter purgatory!
The stiff fronted shirt, wing collar and white waistcoat was utter purgatory!
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Thanks a lot chaps, I just didn't recognise it when I saw it. Times certainly changed during my service - when I was first commissioned we were still wearing the old white waistcoat for Ladies Guest Nights. I wonder what happened to that? At Catterick one of the chaps wore the old tight mess overalls with the elastic straps over patent leather boots (not shoes). Such ostentation was frowned upon by the PMC but as the chap had a private income and didnt give a bugger about petty regulations he carried on wearing them.
When acquiring from Messrs Moss in London a new pair of overalls [following a particularly rowdy Guest night] i requested 14" trouser cuffs. The tailor said, "Sir, that could only be worn with boots." "Yes, I know, and I wear boots." He complied with my requirement.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think we still wore them at ISK when we had someone important like DoE
. Sent the shirt off to the laundry - it went to Aberdeen - and came back beautifully soft and comfortable. It was immediately sent back. On return it had a small woven label fastened to the collar - Stiff Front. I don't think I ever wore it again.Some years later, before a tour in ASI, I dug out my white jacket unworn for 10 years. Once we got the brown stains out off it went to Aberdeen, again it came back soft and made a return journey. During my time at ASI we went to Red Sea rig but I didn't have the right shirt.
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I don't ever remember not being allowed to wear the waistcoat. My vague recollection is that you could take the option of the waistcoat or cummerbund providing the Stn Cdr endorsed the cummerbund option (served 1985-2008).
Call me a heretic, but whilst I welcomed (and occasionally wore) sqn cummerbunds, I sort of got a bit rattled if people didn't wear black tie. I had a similar view of colleagues from Jockistan who chose to wear their chequered skirt.
Call me a heretic, but whilst I welcomed (and occasionally wore) sqn cummerbunds, I sort of got a bit rattled if people didn't wear black tie. I had a similar view of colleagues from Jockistan who chose to wear their chequered skirt.
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OK, some cheap and nasty stuff was available for Stores on repayment, but that wasn’t officers clothing.
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Now that’s what I call a squirrel!! Nice addition to the debate! God, that’s cheap, but full credit for going for the studs and cufflinks.
I had the latter items passed on to me by my father, which was kind, but my wife paid money for the gold pocket watch and chain.
Nice addition to the debate! God, that’s cheap, but full credit for going for the studs and cufflinks.I had the latter items passed on to me by my father, which was kind, but my wife paid money for the gold pocket watch and chain.
In 1960 we got £10.0.0 to buy a hat, gloves and shoes off the visiting tailors at South Cerney.
I flashed out on the best. A Bates hat, the old one with the full crown that could be wet towelled to a Luftwaffe lookalike. Gloves from RE City and the creme of clogs, Poulsen shoes.
I flashed out on the best. A Bates hat, the old one with the full crown that could be wet towelled to a Luftwaffe lookalike. Gloves from RE City and the creme of clogs, Poulsen shoes.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Issue?!!! When did officers get ‘issued’ ... one purchased from one’s tailor, especially Mess Dress, from HMG’s bounteous Officers Commisioning Allowance and subsequent Tax relief!!
OK, some cheap and nasty stuff was available for Stores on repayment, but that wasn’t officers clothing.