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BAe will go to the Ball

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BAe will go to the Ball

Old 17th Oct 2018, 13:48
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BAe will go to the Ball

Profit before ethics??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45882301
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 14:21
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BAE will go to the Ball
Perhaps with plenty of well-stuffed brown envelopes....allegedly?
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 15:23
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It’s a murky world, especially with politics involved. But at least it creates employment, and supports technology and UK Ltd.

Am I a fan of KSA? Certainly NOT.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 15:34
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NN, #1. Your post suggests factual and tested evidence.
Anything to support your (political) opinion?
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 16:44
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No it doesnít. Itís a question. You can tell by the squiggly things at the end. The post also contains the link to a reputable news source which is the grounds for the discussion.

It is a reasonable question. I for one take the post to be the question of: Does BAE Systemís reported plan to attend a business enclave in KSA indicate profits (the reason businesses exist) being put before ethics?

My own answer would probably be ĎNot in a way significantly shifted from how things were prior to recent events which I concede do seem to indicate that KSA may have an interpretation of Ďrules based behavioursí at odds with my own.í
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 17:42
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I donít think BAe do virtue-signalling.

If the Saudis have carried out an assassination it is a wicked thing. But life is full of wickedness we cannot change it and if you lead with the chin all you will get is a busted jaw.
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 22:31
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What Orca said!! There is a lot of discussion in the media about the prevalence of 'moral apathy' when it comes to companies dealing with countries that have questionable human rights records. On the one side you have the Trump Defence "if we don't sell them xxxx someone else will' which guarantees jobs and supports UK PLC and on the other side there are those companies who would rather lose business than risk being involved with a government/country that is even suspected of wrongdoing (even if there is no factual and tested evidence - we shall see). There is no political agenda, just a genuine enquiry as to people's views on whether we should continue to engage with such countries particularly from a defence perspective. I could have gone with this link https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.a1332bf255d9 but feel the first was a more balanced argument!!
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Old 17th Oct 2018, 23:15
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No ethics with BAES and no ethics with KSA. Very well suited to each other. I will have nothing to do with either, bar slate the Brexiteers working there whom slate me as economic migrants. Pot /Kettle.
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 07:10
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Originally Posted by Alber Ratman View Post
No ethics with BAES and no ethics with KSA. Very well suited to each other. I will have nothing to do with either, bar slate the Brexiteers working there whom slate me as economic migrants. Pot /Kettle.
Rubbish.

There are are no Brexiter economic migrants in KSA. They are foreign workers.

Try remaining (legally) in KSA if/when your employment ends.
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 07:38
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History Repeating Itself

Al Yamamah anyone?
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 10:39
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The article states that BAES needs the additional sales to help it survive, which means the UK also needs these sales to protect the UK defence interests. So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.

And then there is the argument that if BAES doesn't sell them, some one else will...
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 17:34
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
The article states that BAES needs the additional sales to help it survive, which means the UK also needs these sales to protect the UK defence interests. So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.

And then there is the argument that if BAES doesn't sell them, some one else will...
BAE Systems, the company whose revenue was £18.32 billion and whose operating profit was £1.48 billion last year,
needs the additional sales to help it survive.
Bless.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 00:05
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Originally Posted by NavyNav2 View Post
is there an alternative way to do business?
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 15:16
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So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.

Thank you Saintsman. I hope the irony of arguing whether BAE Systems has lost the moral high ground for ignoring the alleged dismembering and murder (in that order) of a journalist, while continuing to sell advanced weapons systems that have killed thousands of Yemeni civilians isn't lost on all of you?
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 16:29
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If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?

Who said that? Don't say The Manic Street Preachers.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 17:16
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Does it really matter when the world is being killed off by commercial airline pilots flying jets around the world causing climate change and destroying the atmosphere? Arms manufacturers may provide the tools to kill people "retail", but airliner pilots must surely be the wholesalers...

If you're going to strive for the moral high-ground take care you don't slip and fall down a crevasse...

PDR
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 10:11
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Having spent most of my working life with B.A.C / British Aerospace / Bae systems. I heard and took part in many sessions in the bars (shock horror) discussing the inequities of the Saudi world but never knew anyone who booked a window seat over it. We may have all been little pots but the black can be catching.
Pete.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 16:37
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Whilst I deplore what has happened I think it depends on what you have to lose that defines your stance.

ACW
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