Tyndall AFB - Hurricane Michael - Evacuation & Damage

[Two's in]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Two’s in,

Why MU-2’s?

Good question. The most likely reason is the MU-2 provides near jet performance (almost 300kt, 30,000 ceiling) with turboprop operating costs and handling (75 kt stall). This performance is partially responsible for it's chequered history (over 300 fatalities since introduction) where some handling characteristics were either not taught well, or not understood well by pilots used to piston engine performance. The full span flaps coupled with spoilers for roll control require specific techniques in slow speed or single engine recoveries. The FAA addressed the high accident rate by issuing a Special Federal Air Regulation (SFAR) requiring all MU-2 pilots to receive type-specific initial training and recurrent training. That significantly reduced the accident rates. In the case of Tyndall, the company with the contract (Air 1st) has over 30 years experience operating and maintaining an MU-2 fleet the US, so they obviously manged to convince a DOD Contracting Officer it was the right plane for the job, and won the bid.

[Two's in]

Originally Posted by MPN11

When the gulf coast/FL panhadle is prone to hurricanes one would have thought more robust infrastructure might have been appropriate to protect such expensive assets.

Isn’t hindsight wonderful!

This is an interesting paper from 2001 which lists damage to be expected in a Catastrophic storm (winds greater than 155 mph) which is where Hurricane Michael came in at. Tyndall has been a base for far longer than the current robust building codes have been in place (1941), and although there will be newer buildings, not everything is built to the current code. Slab-sided buildings like hangars are subject to massive forces at those wind speeds, and as you will see below, it is often the case of "for want of a nail.." the building was lost. To build everything to withstand a Cat 4/5 Hurricane would be cost-prohibitive, so like many things in this world, it's a compromise between resilience and cost, taking the gamble that the "big one" won't hit you. The only sure fire way to prevent Hurricane damage is not to have an Air Force Base on or near the coast in a Hurricane region, it's as simple as that. I currently reside not too far from Patrick AFB in Florida, which is a tropical paradise built on the outer bank of sand south of Cocoa Beach between the Atlantic and the rest of Florida. It's been hit by multiple Hurricanes but without any major damage, and a sure sign it's time to evacuate is when the gaggle of C-130's and HH-60's lift off and head North. If that ever gets hit by a Cat 5 there probably won't be an outer bank any more, never mind an Air Base. In the meantime, the planners keep rolling the dice while keeping the evacuation plans up to date.

So it's not really hindsight, it's risk management and gambling in it's most extreme form. Tyndall's account balance just got reset to zero in this case.

Hurricanes and their Effects on Buildings and Structures in the Caribbean

Hurricanes and their Effects on Buildings and Structures in the Caribbean
by Tony Gibbs, Director, CEP

2.2 Catastrophic Failures

2.2.1 Foundations (Photo 1)

The uplift forces from hurricane winds can sometimes pull buildings completely out of the ground. In contrast to designing for gravity loads, the lighter the building the larger (or heavier) the foundation needs to be in hurricane resistant design. Ignoring this precept has led to some dramatic failure of long-span, steel-framed warehouses.

2.2.2 Steel Frames (Photo 2)

A common misconception is that the loss of cladding relieves the loads from building frameworks. There are several circumstances where the opposite is the case and where the wind loads on the structural frame increases substantially with the loss of cladding.Usually the weakness in steel frames is in the connections. Thus economising on minor items (bolts) has led to the overall failure of the major items (columns, beams and rafters).

2.2.3 Masonry Houses (Photo 3)

These are usually regarded as being safe in hurricanes. There are countless examples where the loss of roofs has triggered the total destruction of un-reinforced masonry walls.

2.2.4 Timber Houses (Photo 4)

The key to safe construction of timber houses in the connection details. The inherent vulnerability of light-weight timber houses coupled with poor connections is a dangerous combination which has often led to disaster.

2.2.5 Reinforced Concrete Frames (Photo 5)

The design of reinforced concrete frames is usually controlled by the seismic hazard. In countries where this is not an issue care still needs to be exercised to ensure that the concrete frames can accommodate the wind forces. There have been a few isolated examples where, ignoring this, has led to disaster.

2.2.6 Telecommunication Towers and Masts (Photo 6)

These are almost always consciously-engineered structures. There is no good reason why so many of them fail in hurricanes. The bad reason is usually inadequate procurement procedures. Specialist advice is not often sought in specifying design criteria for suppliers or in checking that specified criteria have been met. The most common destruction of engineered structures in Caribbean hurricanes is in this class of facility.

[MPN11]

Very interesting, and the points are well taken. Thanks for that input

[LowObservable]

I suspect that part of the planning always involved "and then we fly the expensive airplanes out".

Woops

[JimNtexas]

Originally Posted by Two's in

Good question. The most likely reason is the MU-2 provides near jet performance (almost 300kt, 30,000 ceiling) with turboprop operating costs and handling (75 kt stall). ...

I was directly involved in the selection of the MU-2. The requirement was for a tuboprop airplane that could attain 250 knots in level flight.

The ‘Rice Rocket’ replaced the T-33 for the primary mission of providing a target (aka ‘duck’) for student GCI controllers.

It had to go 250 knots because the radar training consoles could double the displayed speed as long as the real airplane could go 250 knots.

[Treble one]

I was led to believe from reports that the F-22's left were either unserviceable (indeed some being cannabalised for parts for the rest of the fleet), or couldn't be generated as serviceable in time to escape the storm. Indeed on aircraft went u/s whilst taxying for take off it was reported.

[MPN11]

Thread Drift ... use of the MU-2 for Fighter Controller training reminds me of my GCA Course in 1966. After some time on Simulators, we went LIVE!! Initially with Piston Provosts and then with Vampires, flown by Marshall’s contract pilots, pointing at our 2 MPN-11 GCA Trucks at RAF Sleap. I even got a ‘Tick VG’ for passing traffic advisory on a flock of birds in the middle of a talkdown!!

Not a lot new these days, just different hardware.

[JSF-TC]

Why MU-2’s?

25+ years ago when I was at Eglin shooting AMRAAMs from Dunsfold's finest wonder-jet, the MU-2 was used as a range clearance aircraft and weapon TM re-rad, especially when shooting down low and well out to sea.


As a related aside, great photos of XZ439 from Vzlet on the "Royal Navy F-35B compared with anything" thread - good to see it is still going strong.

[Melchett01]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Looks like an F22 in that shed

There’s a lot doing the rounds on social media at the moment about this. I don’t know the ground truth but reports suggest only 30+ of the F22s were flown out ahead of time. The rest, potentially around 20 or so were thought to be still in the hangars when it all got a bit windy.

Thats an awful lot of very expensive jets potentially scrapped in minutes in the worst case. Points to serious serviceability and poor availability rates if so many were u/s at one time. Questions no doubt to be asked if they have lost double digits worth of airframes.

[RickNRoll]

To fly them out they first of all have to be flyable. A lot of maintenance required for a state of the art military plane.

[NutLoose]

You will find this an interesting read

Setting The Record Straight On Why Fighter Jets Can't All Simply Fly Away To Escape Storms - The Drive

[RAFEngO74to09]

Now confirmed by the Pentagon that 17 x F-22 could not be evacuated due to undergoing maintenance and lack of spares. It is currently estimated that "only a few" are beyond repair but the remainder will take "a long time" to repair.
The hangars were built to withstand 130 mph winds but the winds experienced were 150 mph+ and Tyndall AFB was in the eye of the storm.
Over 11,000 military personnel and families were evacuated prior and 867 housing units were damaged.

[glad rag]

What are the wind limits for a NATO Mk3 HAS? And how many F22's can you get in one??

[gums]

Salute!

Looks like we dodged the bullet over at Tyndall. I am 60 nm west and only had 30 mph winds, and no water due to my 60 feet MSL

Our U.S. weather agency has flown recce over the area at a thousand feet or so, and resolution of the photos is really good. It's a service for refugees to check on their property. One family had a "HELP" message in the yard that they made outta tree sections, heh heh. See: NOAA's National Ocean Service for damage assessment. The helo tour Friday was very encouraging. Our local special ops runway repair/ clearing and combat control teams got over there and opened the runway by Friday night or early Saturday. Hell, over here we got Osprey's and all kinds of helos, plus Hercules and such.

One survivor over there has video he took when the eye went over the base, and it is eerie.
+++++++++++++++++++==
The base brings back fond memories, and my bride and I rented a cottage over in Mexico Beach when checking out in the VooDoo. It was paradise, and we wished that the program was a lot longer than two months.

Seciondly, at the end of training, I was over on an island in the bay for water survival and such when Hurricane Alma went ashore within 10 miles of this monster ( June 1966). The instructors evacuated us in the middle of the night on boats as the wind picked up. Scary. We suspected the move after hearing dozens and dozens of afterburners lighting up earlier in the night. They were flying the airworthy jets out.

Gums sends...

[SASless]

Now let's be honest....any average dunce could probably guess Tyndall AFB being nearly within spitting distance of the Gulf of Mexico might just possibly get hit by the odd Hurricane now and then......especially based upon past actual events.

It of course makes absolute sense to stash fifty or so very expensive and somewhat rare aircraft there.

Yes it makes for close proximity to the training areas and firing ranges....but being a bit further inland certainly would not work a real hardship for a commute to those areas.

You would think there would be some Generals reverting to Colonels over these kinds of decisions.

[sandiego89]

Originally Posted by SASless

Now let's be honest....any average dunce could probably guess Tyndall AFB being nearly within spitting distance of the Gulf of Mexico might just possibly get hit by the odd Hurricane now and then......especially based upon past actual events.

It of course makes absolute sense to stash fifty or so very expensive and somewhat rare aircraft there.

Yes it makes for close proximity to the training areas and firing ranges....but being a bit further inland certainly would not work a real hardship for a commute to those areas.

You would think there would be some Generals reverting to Colonels over these kinds of decisions.

I think Senators and Member of Congress have more say on basing decisions than the good Generals and Colonels....

I do agree that some other bases would be better suited, with Nellis, Hill, several Texas bases and Marietta GA coming to mind....

[ORAC]

https://www.tampabay.com/breaking-ne...nado-20190120/

Tyndall Air Force Base hit by tornado

Tyndall Air Force Base, a key military base on Florida's panhandle, was hit by a tornado Saturday night — just three months after the base was devastated by Hurricane Michael.

[gums]

Salute!
From local TV station:

TYNDALL AFB, Fla. (WJHG/WECP) - UPDATE: The National Weather Service in Tallahassee has confirmed a tornado touched down at Tyndall Air Force Base Saturday night.
The report said an EF1 tornado with estimated peak winds of 90 mph "moved a car, broke car windows, tore a portion of a new roof off of barracks and flipped dumpsters and garbage cans on their sides." An EF1 tornado is described as being weak in nature.In a letter posted on Tyndall's Facebook, Colonel Laidlaw said the damage will not impact ongoing missions at the base.

So let's face it, it was like a Cat 1 hurricane but only two hundred yards or so wide, and no storm surge and was over in a minute versus a few hours of 120 - 150 mph winds they saw in October. This are and the numerous military bases have endured many hurricanes and are better prepared and structures are stronger than a lot of surrounding homes and businesses.

One squad of Raptors and the T-38's are over here at Eglin and rumor on the street is they will be here for a long time..
We have plenty of thunderstorms here in the Panhandle, and very strong ones.

Gums sends from the Panhandle...