Cambridge Spies and vetting experiences
As an aside I gleefully declare at every opportunity my master criminal background of being charged and found guilty of, "changing single accommodation without prior permission in order to avoid a bull night." Whilst on my driving course the bull nights were held on Monday nights for the residents of one block and on Tuesday nights for the residents of the other block. I copied the old sweat SAC Gunners (I was an LAC) and just moved my paltry amount of kit and bedding as appropriate. We finally got caught and I was awarded 3 days jankers which I spent sitting about in the fire section.
Not a single spelling error was ever detected in my career
Not a single spelling error was ever detected in my career
FE Driver
Good point. Definitely ethnic Chinese, but I suspect a resident of Singapore when they met, the timing of which would have been interesting (mid 60s) for obvious reasons. I seem to remember on a detachment to Singapore a couple of years afterwards that such relationships were frowned on then at the very least.
Good point. Definitely ethnic Chinese, but I suspect a resident of Singapore when they met, the timing of which would have been interesting (mid 60s) for obvious reasons. I seem to remember on a detachment to Singapore a couple of years afterwards that such relationships were frowned on then at the very least.
Not strictly DV related but I worked with a SNCO who had Hungarian parents (escaped during the 56 uprising).
When he did his interviews at the Careers Office prior to joining he was asked the standard question about previous family military service:
Q: So were any of you parents in the military?
A: My Dad and Grandad were both in the Army.
Q: What regiments?
A: Don't know, but my Dad was with the Russians and Grandad was with the Germans.
(Father had done NS pre 56 and Grandad had fought on the Eastern Front).
When he did his interviews at the Careers Office prior to joining he was asked the standard question about previous family military service:
Q: So were any of you parents in the military?
A: My Dad and Grandad were both in the Army.
Q: What regiments?
A: Don't know, but my Dad was with the Russians and Grandad was with the Germans.
(Father had done NS pre 56 and Grandad had fought on the Eastern Front).
I was nominated to be a referee for a chap needing an up market clearance (PV Red Star - springs to mind).
The investigator was an ex-Met police officer and at the end of our meeting he said: 'You seem a decent sort of chap; how is it Sqn Ldr Oldduffer you are still single at 35'? My reply was: "I'm a 'reconditioned' bachelor". I then had to explain that I was divorced and would he like the reference to the case where my (then wife) had 'sought solace elsewhere'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old Duffer
The investigator was an ex-Met police officer and at the end of our meeting he said: 'You seem a decent sort of chap; how is it Sqn Ldr Oldduffer you are still single at 35'? My reply was: "I'm a 'reconditioned' bachelor". I then had to explain that I was divorced and would he like the reference to the case where my (then wife) had 'sought solace elsewhere'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old Duffer
Thread Starter
Here's a thought which flashed briefly across the brain cell.
Who selects/ appoints and clears the interrogators? To what level are they cleared? They become repositories of incredible amounts of sinful secrets, and each and every one could surely write a lurid book, or become a blackmailer, or defect.
Are they shot when they attempt to retire?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Who selects/ appoints and clears the interrogators? To what level are they cleared? They become repositories of incredible amounts of sinful secrets, and each and every one could surely write a lurid book, or become a blackmailer, or defect.
Are they shot when they attempt to retire?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And no doubt helps if they are DV in the first place. Even holding DV with one Service I believe they would need a new DV in another.
As an aside, it was cheaper to renew a PV, even if the holder was destined for a non-PV post or due to retire, than allow it to lapse and get a new clearance later.
Another thing is you were never told your clearance. It was 'probably ' true that if your clearance was for a PV post that your clearance was PV. But you might have been cleared to PV RS but if the job did not require RS then you would not be told that.
On one trip, as we were all in jobs affording TS access, and were escorted by an RAF gp capt, the US allowed us access to a secret bunker without further clearance.
As an aside, it was cheaper to renew a PV, even if the holder was destined for a non-PV post or due to retire, than allow it to lapse and get a new clearance later.
Another thing is you were never told your clearance. It was 'probably ' true that if your clearance was for a PV post that your clearance was PV. But you might have been cleared to PV RS but if the job did not require RS then you would not be told that.
On one trip, as we were all in jobs affording TS access, and were escorted by an RAF gp capt, the US allowed us access to a secret bunker without further clearance.
I also knew an airman with a Hungarian background and a surname to match. Years later we met as SNCOs, he then had a very British surname. He explained he had been 'advised'. I cannot be certain but I seem to remember he worked where PV was the norm.
I found being interviewed about a colleague quite difficult. Honest answers, naturally, but it made me think how little I really knew about the guy.
I found being interviewed about a colleague quite difficult. Honest answers, naturally, but it made me think how little I really knew about the guy.
Thread Starter
I have just finished the Philby bio by MacIntyre.
Astonishing to present day thinking that Philby, Burgess and Maclean were all, in effect, presumed innocent until found guilty despite giving off signals that they were not to be trusted with the price of bus ride. The Establishment at its worst. The attempts at coverups continuing for years after the events were ludicrous and amateurish.
Having now waded through all three biographies I am at least comforted by the fact that their exiles in Russia were basically unhappy.
Blunt is next up for a read. No exile for him.
Astonishing to present day thinking that Philby, Burgess and Maclean were all, in effect, presumed innocent until found guilty despite giving off signals that they were not to be trusted with the price of bus ride. The Establishment at its worst. The attempts at coverups continuing for years after the events were ludicrous and amateurish.
Having now waded through all three biographies I am at least comforted by the fact that their exiles in Russia were basically unhappy.
Blunt is next up for a read. No exile for him.
Here's a thought which flashed briefly across the brain cell.
Who selects/ appoints and clears the interrogators? To what level are they cleared? They become repositories of incredible amounts of sinful secrets, and each and every one could surely write a lurid book, or become a blackmailer, or defect.
Are they shot when they attempt to retire?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Who selects/ appoints and clears the interrogators? To what level are they cleared? They become repositories of incredible amounts of sinful secrets, and each and every one could surely write a lurid book, or become a blackmailer, or defect.
Are they shot when they attempt to retire?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I have just finished the Philby bio by MacIntyre.
Astonishing to present day thinking that Philby, Burgess and Maclean were all, in effect, presumed innocent until found guilty despite giving off signals that they were not to be trusted with the price of bus ride. The Establishment at its worst. The attempts at coverups continuing for years after the events were ludicrous and amateurish.
Having now waded through all three biographies I am at least comforted by the fact that their exiles in Russia were basically unhappy.
Blunt is next up for a read. No exile for him.
Astonishing to present day thinking that Philby, Burgess and Maclean were all, in effect, presumed innocent until found guilty despite giving off signals that they were not to be trusted with the price of bus ride. The Establishment at its worst. The attempts at coverups continuing for years after the events were ludicrous and amateurish.
Having now waded through all three biographies I am at least comforted by the fact that their exiles in Russia were basically unhappy.
Blunt is next up for a read. No exile for him.
Don't forget the fifth man, Cairncross. All five of them, in my opinion, should have been charged with treason, just as Amery and Joyce were. They should have faced Pierpoint at 9 o'clock one cold dark morning at Wandworh or Penonville for the ultimate punishment for traitors. Under Elizabth I, they would have found getting dead following their interrogation somewhat prolonged and painful, no happy chat in a convivial atmosphere..They were lucky of they had not been victims of the erstwhile employers as they may have got the reputed Penkovsky treatment.
Don't forget the fifth man, Cairncross. All five of them, in my opinion, should have been charged with treason, just as Amery and Joyce were. They should have faced Pierpoint at 9 o'clock one cold dark morning at Wandworh or Penonville for the ultimate punishment for traitors. Under Elizabth I, they would have found getting dead following their interrogation somewhat prolonged and painful, no happy chat in a convivial atmosphere..They were lucky of they had not been victims of the erstwhile employers as they may have got the reputed Penkovsky treatment.
Thread Starter
Hanging them as a knee jerk was very attractive, Philby alone was directly responsible for many murders. However, keeping them alive with a very long sentence in a British top security jail [remember Blake?] might have provided dividends in the way of intelligence.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
I’ve always admired how the UK used to play the long game in such matters. Now , it does seem like politics are driven by the headlines in the Daily Mail. Whether that is the standard of politician falling , or just the dumbing down of society, I have no idea.
Hanging them as a knee jerk was very attractive, Philby alone was directly responsible for many murders. However, keeping them alive with a very long sentence in a British top security jail [remember Blake?] might have provided dividends in the way of intelligence.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
Hanging them as a knee jerk was very attractive, Philby alone was directly responsible for many murders. However, keeping them alive with a very long sentence in a British top security jail [remember Blake?] might have provided dividends in the way of intelligence.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
An ailing old drunkard denied drink and his bumboy, with few comforts, might just opt for a Damascene conversion and spill priceless beans. Worth a shot surely.
The security effort seems poorly distributed.
Masses of front line personnel are interrogated and impacted, to little practical benefit, while the most lucrative targets are left wide open or casually scrutinized. It is locking the front door while leaving the back door ajar.
It is no different here in the US unfortunately.
Penetrating the Office of Personnel and also the firm that makes the RSA key tokens gave the attacker the ability to read almost all encrypted US DoD contractor mail as well as the ability to select people most susceptible to recruitment, at minimal cost.
Masses of front line personnel are interrogated and impacted, to little practical benefit, while the most lucrative targets are left wide open or casually scrutinized. It is locking the front door while leaving the back door ajar.
It is no different here in the US unfortunately.
Penetrating the Office of Personnel and also the firm that makes the RSA key tokens gave the attacker the ability to read almost all encrypted US DoD contractor mail as well as the ability to select people most susceptible to recruitment, at minimal cost.