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Cambridge Spies and vetting experiences

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Cambridge Spies and vetting experiences

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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:27
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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“This man has a propensity for gratuitous violence, which might render him susceptible to being placed in a compromising situation.”
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:39
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Doesn't such policies re Homosexuality themselves create an environment that makes for the possibility of compromise that the policy seeks to prevent?
Exactly so SASless.

On all my (UK) DVs (or whatever they were called at the time) from I guess about 1989 to 2002 - so many renewals and changes - the deal was always "If we know about it (whatever it was) then you can't be compromised/blackmailed." Apparently it also covered "bits on the side" if the missus knew about it. Same logic I suppose...... None of this of course applied to moi!!
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 14:22
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Originally Posted by BATCO View Post
PN
I can't speak for the airman, but as a wg cdr I can assure you that "...confessing to homosexuality..." whilst not being 'out' (post 1999) certainly was cited as evidence of dishonesty and the subsequent failure to be granted a DV clearance.

Regards
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The tale I relate dated from late 80s - PV - while on a course at a school in Kent. The lecture was by a 'young' provost officer and his subject was hijacked by hostile questioning from the audience, one of whom was the airman's flt cdr.

The point about the wg cdr was startling. If he had reached the rank of wg cdr before confessing then it followed that he had previously lied. I have no clue who the wg cdr was though I had seen rather odd behaviour by another wg cdr some 12 years previously.

Similarly the story about the VSO had only surfaced after he was compromised in a toilet in Shepherd's Bush.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 14:29
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead View Post
"If we know about it (whatever it was) then you can't be compromised/blackmailed."
Always struck me as false logic. Certainly couldn't be blackmailed by "we'll tell your boss" but you could still be blackmailed to stop mates, wives, etc finding out. This was could have applied to drugs, crimes, fetishes, sex etc.

Now if interviews had taken place west of 8 west!
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:01
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
The tale I relate dated from late 80s - PV - while on a course at a school in Kent. The lecture was by a 'young' provost officer and his subject was hijacked by hostile questioning from the audience, one of whom was the airman's flt cdr.

The point about the wg cdr was startling. If he had reached the rank of wg cdr before confessing then it followed that he had previously lied. I have no clue who the wg cdr was though I had seen rather odd behaviour by another wg cdr some 12 years previously.

Similarly the story about the VSO had only surfaced after he was compromised in a toilet in Shepherd's Bush.
Interestingly I knew of a RAF Police officer who later came out as gay. Whilst genuinely not an issue on a personal level, this was back in the days when part of the application process asked a direct question as to your sexuality. Noting there was only one correct answer, this individual clearly lied. Given that, what does that mean for any convictions they were involved in securing? Was their credibility, and by extension the integrity of their investigations in anyway diminished or compromised by the fact that they lied in the first place to get to where they were?
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:56
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Back in the day, it's quite plausible that someone could be living in denial of their sexuality and only admit to themselves in later life that they were gay. It wasn't at all uncommon for people to get married (to someone of the opposite gender) and have a family, before later accepting their own sexuality. In that scenario no lying would be required, as the subject would have believed they were telling the truth when they claimed to be straight.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 16:36
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Many moons ago a colleague of mine, due for an overseas posting, had a home visit from a PV officer. All the usual questions, but included, 'I see you have an electric drill. How much did that cost and what do you use it for?' Highly suspicious, of course, a civilian with a power drill. Drill is only for the troops.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 17:49
  #48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
Langley Baston,

Really rattling good reads on this stuff include Ben MacIntyre's 'A Spy Among Friends' about Philby, and 'The Spy and the Traitor' about Oleg Gordievsky.

MacIntyre is one of those blokes who writes history as though it was a fast-paced thriller.
Thank you, I have it on my shelf next to read.

I finished Burgess last night ....... good book, disgusting subject. He should have swung. As it is, his exile in Russia was not enjoyed, and he died amazingly young as his habits caught up with him.
My interest was piqued by watching the BBC2 two parter "Cambridge Spies", with a superb cast, such that I see the spies in my mind's eye as those actors.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 17:54
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Originally Posted by sittingstress View Post
Deer Beagle and langleybastion, I am not hapy about you're speeling crack. Take it back or I will come round you're houses and discust it with you.

Per Ardua
I shall be out.
Not outed, you understand.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 19:47
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Banter still exists, don't you love it!!
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 20:51
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
I shall be out.
Not outed, you understand.
You will be nocked out for taking the mikey from us Gunners. Now pop out and count some clouds

Per Ardua

Last edited by sittingstress; 11th Oct 2018 at 20:51. Reason: Forgetting the latin
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 21:28
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pasta View Post
Back in the day, it's quite plausible that someone could be living in denial of their sexuality and only admit to themselves in later life that they were gay. It wasn't at all uncommon for people to get married (to someone of the opposite gender) and have a family, before later accepting their own sexuality. In that scenario no lying would be required, as the subject would have believed they were telling the truth when they claimed to be straight.
Not even back in the day, I personally know of one currently serving middle ranking officer whom that senario applies to.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 07:38
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
Thank you, that will be next on my book list [I have read the Maclean biography, and Philby is next.] Could it still happen? Probably not, because the upside of the death of deference is that young and middle-aged people have been taught to question and to abandon respect for their "betters".
Don't worry with Philby's autobiography, "My Silent War: The Autobiography of a Spy".
A complete whitewash of his career of treason, it really makes you cringe how these cretins could justify the harm and deaths they caused.

Last edited by BBadanov; 12th Oct 2018 at 07:40. Reason: sp
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 08:28
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Was it Andrew Brookes who pointed out in one of his books that Tony Benn wouldn't have passed PV when he was Minister for Technology in the 1960s and arguably instrumental in wrecking the UK airframe industry?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 10:04
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Did TB pass PV when he was in the Service then?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 11:20
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Probably not, skua. According to Wiki he wasn’t doing much secret stuff during his VERY short career. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn Having started as an AC2 in July 1943 ...
He was granted an emergency commission as a pilot officer (on probation) on 10 March 1945.[29] As a pilot officer, Benn served as a pilot in South Africa and Rhodesia.[30] He relinquished his commission with effect from 10 August 1945, three months after the Second World War ended in Europe on 8 May, and just days before the war with Japan ended on 2 September.
A bit different to his father, Air Cdre DSO DFC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will...ount_Stansgate

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Old 12th Oct 2018, 12:57
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Let us not forget that Denis Healey, as Minister of Defence, was a former member of the Communist Party. Was he PV'd?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 13:05
  #58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Let us not forget that Denis Healey, as Minister of Defence, was a former member of the Communist Party. Was he PV'd?
And is on record saying that had it been up to him he would not have authorised nuclear release. Jim Callaghan OTOH said he would. I wonder if HW would have?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 13:42
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Let us not forget that Denis Healey, as Minister of Defence, was a former member of the Communist Party. Was he PV'd?
Without wishing to sully the portals of PPRuNe with politics, it would be interesting to know whether the current Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition would be granted a DV clearance in the light of his background. Presumably Prime Ministers (and indeed some other Ministers) need some sort of clearance? Or are they exempt by virtue of being politicians?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 16:23
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Let us not forget that Denis Healey, as Minister of Defence, was a former member of the Communist Party. Was he PV'd?
While on my joined-up writing course at Bracknell many decades back, the general topic of security clearances for Ministers was raised in questions from the floor to the then SoS for Defence. The response was twofold; first part along the lines of "how dare you cast aspersions against government ministers"; second part was "impossible, it takes far too long."
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