Good news for RAF Student Pilots:
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good news for RAF Student Pilots:
My sources tell me that Linton will shortly be a happier place, despite the imminent closure, as (some of) the students there who thought they faced years of holds, will soon be off to a hot and dusty climate to fly jets.
In what has been described as the MoD finally seeing the light, the farce at Valley is to be sidestepped by some students, and the hyper efficient operation at Sheppard AFB in Texas will be training the next batch of RAF Pilots.
MFTS at Valley has almost 50 QFIs and can't produce the quantity or quality of students that the Typhoon OCU need. Indeed some courses at Valley have recently produced no output to the Coningsby OCU at all, but the "course" graduation was still processed, so the civvy contractors got paid just the same. Despite having all the resources they asked for, and effectively taking over the station, the MFTS Contractors have consistently failed to come up with the goods. So it's not much of a surprise that the penny has finally dropped and for the second time, Fast Jet Lead In Training has been outsourced, but this time to an Air Force that knows how to train pilots.
What on earth has been going on at the top of the tree?
In what has been described as the MoD finally seeing the light, the farce at Valley is to be sidestepped by some students, and the hyper efficient operation at Sheppard AFB in Texas will be training the next batch of RAF Pilots.
MFTS at Valley has almost 50 QFIs and can't produce the quantity or quality of students that the Typhoon OCU need. Indeed some courses at Valley have recently produced no output to the Coningsby OCU at all, but the "course" graduation was still processed, so the civvy contractors got paid just the same. Despite having all the resources they asked for, and effectively taking over the station, the MFTS Contractors have consistently failed to come up with the goods. So it's not much of a surprise that the penny has finally dropped and for the second time, Fast Jet Lead In Training has been outsourced, but this time to an Air Force that knows how to train pilots.
What on earth has been going on at the top of the tree?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Odiham
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A joke - except not funny.......
Ha ha ha,
They are too busy patting themselves on the back for a bad job badly done instead of providing Mil Flying training.............. and still robbing the MoD blind. When you see the calibre of individuals posting comments on that post - you understand it all.
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update...54624746659840
They are too busy patting themselves on the back for a bad job badly done instead of providing Mil Flying training.............. and still robbing the MoD blind. When you see the calibre of individuals posting comments on that post - you understand it all.
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update...54624746659840
And the same farce is being played out at Shawbury with MFTSH - but so far no ballsy decision to address the problem.
I thought the USAF lacked enough training capacity for its own purposes yet they're taking in non-US students ?
I must be overlooking or missing some critical facet of this deal.
Non-US students have been trained at Sheppard for years. The aircraft (T-38s at least) are German-owned and, since 1981, the staff are multi-national.
https://www.sheppard.af.mil/Library/...rogram-enjjpt/
https://www.sheppard.af.mil/Library/...rogram-enjjpt/
So the USAF is taking on foreign students ? Will they be trained by USAF instructor pilots (or US contractors) in USAF aircraft at Sheppard AFB ?
I thought the USAF lacked enough training capacity for its own purposes yet they're taking in non-US students ?
I must be overlooking or missing some critical facet of this deal.
I thought the USAF lacked enough training capacity for its own purposes yet they're taking in non-US students ?
I must be overlooking or missing some critical facet of this deal.
Which does beg the question, how much are we paying for it, in respect to what they 'should' be getting?...
Guest
Posts: n/a
So, the wartime "Arnold Scheme" lives again ! ("What goes around, comes around"). Always did make sense: the Southern States had the climate and the air space for flying training - Europe didn't - and hasn't.
Then as now, my "Primary" was at a USAAC Base ("Carlsrtom Field"), but operated by the "Embry-Riddle (Civilian) School of Aviation", who supplied the Instructors.
From: "The Official Website of "The Arnold Scheme (1941-1943) Register"™
"Unfortunately nearly 50% of British cadets did not successfully complete pilot training under the scheme, being eliminated ("washed out"), usually without the right of appeal. Between 1941 and 1943, some 7,885 cadets entered the scheme and of the 4493 who survived training, most were returned to the UK as Sergeant Pilots, with many being posted to Bomber Command". However, 577 of the graduates were retained for a period of approximately one year as Instructors."
Plus ça change, plus c'ést la même chose .....
Then as now, my "Primary" was at a USAAC Base ("Carlsrtom Field"), but operated by the "Embry-Riddle (Civilian) School of Aviation", who supplied the Instructors.
From: "The Official Website of "The Arnold Scheme (1941-1943) Register"™
"Unfortunately nearly 50% of British cadets did not successfully complete pilot training under the scheme, being eliminated ("washed out"), usually without the right of appeal. Between 1941 and 1943, some 7,885 cadets entered the scheme and of the 4493 who survived training, most were returned to the UK as Sergeant Pilots, with many being posted to Bomber Command". However, 577 of the graduates were retained for a period of approximately one year as Instructors."
Plus ça change, plus c'ést la même chose .....
Yes...and probably other bases too. A good buddy was a T37 instructor in the late 60s and even trained some Iranian students. In somewhat recent history, Afghan pilots were trained by the USAF [I made reference to a somewhat famous female Afghan pilot and her efforts to bail on the process...lost track of her and her status).
My question was more related to the current situation claimed by the USAF that they lack the training capacity to train enough of their own pilots which contributes to their current "shortage".
I guess the USAF has plenty of capacity if they can give training slots to non-US pilots ?
My question was more related to the current situation claimed by the USAF that they lack the training capacity to train enough of their own pilots which contributes to their current "shortage".
I guess the USAF has plenty of capacity if they can give training slots to non-US pilots ?
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
Age: 100
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one lucky enough to be trained in Texas from 1943/1944 at 1 British Flying Training School at Terrell, 30 miles east of Dallas, I envy those equally given good fortune. We didn’t suffer the “hazing” that the Arnold Scheme students suffered, but I hope that wiser counsels now prevail. Good luck to the new students, happy landings and good relations with the Texans.
There is a Museum of the BFTS in Terrell. Well worth a visit.
There is a Museum of the BFTS in Terrell. Well worth a visit.
It's not necessarily somebody else paying. The aircraft at Sheppard were all GAF owned, not sure about the T6 now but assume the T-38s are still German, and the IPs were mostly German until the advent of ENJJPT. Cost-wise, it was reckoned to be a lot cheaper in terms of pounds per hour. As I understand it, UK went into it to be 'part of the program' as well as the easy potential to surge - an extra 20 studes a year would have been be a drop in the ocean but completely unattainable here.
For all the time RAF studes were involved, it only went as far as (then) wings ie post-AFT, so there was quite a penalty in cost and time doing TW back in UK, and the associated AFT/Hawk convex/UK orientation. Since 1994, ENJJPT has included Fighter Lead In or 'Intro to Fighter Fundamentals' so studes could potentially go from there to the OCU, depending on previous UK experience. Failing that, a short spell on the Ton would cover it.
Are you expecting a bunch of Brit pilots to suffer harassment and mistreatment at the hands of Texans ?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 146 Likes
on
28 Posts
The true cost of closing the TWUs in finally realised.
Question regarding the weather.
Someone mentioned that the weather is better in the Southern States. This allows for more consistent and regular flying and therefore can be done quicker, but are US trained pilots at a disadvantage when they return, because they don't have the experience flying with the crappy weather we often get in the UK?
Someone mentioned that the weather is better in the Southern States. This allows for more consistent and regular flying and therefore can be done quicker, but are US trained pilots at a disadvantage when they return, because they don't have the experience flying with the crappy weather we often get in the UK?
Also one famous Harrier GR5 display pilot in the early 1990s published a nice paperback book with lots of nice photos , went through ENJJPT in the late 80s.
Cheers
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ormeside (#11),
Lucky devil - you had it good ! Located near a town airport, with all the town amenities, (including your choice of "southern belles" with their convertibles on tap to pick you up and take you to the pool), spare a thought for us "Arnold" boys, "out in the sticks" on some God-forsaken Army camp, miles from anywhere, with nowhere to go - and no transport to get us there !
"Hazing" was only a problem for our first Courses, as the RAF "Kay-dets" (LACs, actually) would, of course, have nothing to do with it.
Lucky devil - you had it good ! Located near a town airport, with all the town amenities, (including your choice of "southern belles" with their convertibles on tap to pick you up and take you to the pool), spare a thought for us "Arnold" boys, "out in the sticks" on some God-forsaken Army camp, miles from anywhere, with nowhere to go - and no transport to get us there !
"Hazing" was only a problem for our first Courses, as the RAF "Kay-dets" (LACs, actually) would, of course, have nothing to do with it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes...and probably other bases too. A good buddy was a T37 instructor in the late 60s and even trained some Iranian students. In somewhat recent history, Afghan pilots were trained by the USAF [I made reference to a somewhat famous female Afghan pilot and her efforts to bail on the process...lost track of her and her status).
My question was more related to the current situation claimed by the USAF that they lack the training capacity to train enough of their own pilots which contributes to their current "shortage".
I guess the USAF has plenty of capacity if they can give training slots to non-US pilots ?
My question was more related to the current situation claimed by the USAF that they lack the training capacity to train enough of their own pilots which contributes to their current "shortage".
I guess the USAF has plenty of capacity if they can give training slots to non-US pilots ?
Can you point me at an example of this claim, that they are short of capacity?