Calling Tonka aircrew and squippers - PEC question
Thread Starter
Calling Tonka aircrew and squippers - PEC question
Hi all,
Can anyone confirm the designation of a version of the Mk12 PEC (Tornado) with a regular NATO socket for helmet comms instead of the LEMO connector?
I've so far only found documented evidence from 1975 and 1983 of the PECs with LEMO connectors, but a friend has two Tornado PEC's with NATO connectors.
See here for what I've found so far:
http://www.scottbouch.com/aircrew-uk...-mask-mk12.htm
Why would you fly with NATO connector on the PEC and Helmet over a LEMO? Also, what is the PEC's Mk designation?
Many thanks, Scott
Can anyone confirm the designation of a version of the Mk12 PEC (Tornado) with a regular NATO socket for helmet comms instead of the LEMO connector?
I've so far only found documented evidence from 1975 and 1983 of the PECs with LEMO connectors, but a friend has two Tornado PEC's with NATO connectors.
See here for what I've found so far:
http://www.scottbouch.com/aircrew-uk...-mask-mk12.htm
Why would you fly with NATO connector on the PEC and Helmet over a LEMO? Also, what is the PEC's Mk designation?
Many thanks, Scott
Last edited by ScottBouch; 2nd Oct 2018 at 11:47.
I had a back seat rides in a GR1 back in the 90s and I'm sure the PEC had the standard NATO jack. The Lemo was introduced on Harrier/Tornado later due to the need for extra connector pins with NVG power and I believe auto-detach.
I've seen versions with both 8-pin and 12-pin Lemo 2B sockets.
I've seen versions with both 8-pin and 12-pin Lemo 2B sockets.
Thread Starter
Thanks H Peacock,
I have seen the three versions of LEMO, but as you say, the three aircraft - it's tempting to correlate them, but knowing the logic of the air force, I doubt it's that straightforward!
The documents I found from 1975 and 1983 in the link shown both show a type of LEMO connector, but not which one. I then have it reported by two people that standard NATO connectors have been in use too.
I'd love to unpick the illogical logic of this, but I'm going to need dome help!
It's going to be a matter of piecing together eras / roles / equipment needs etc.. to decipher which interfaces are used for what, and were used when!
With the power supplied for NVG's, did ANR headsets ever get supplied through the LEMO connectors too? (did Tornado crews use ANR headsets in the helmets? I've seen them on Jaguar with the external battery pack)
And then there's Jaguar and Harrier, but let's not go there for now!
Cheers, Scott
I have seen the three versions of LEMO, but as you say, the three aircraft - it's tempting to correlate them, but knowing the logic of the air force, I doubt it's that straightforward!
The documents I found from 1975 and 1983 in the link shown both show a type of LEMO connector, but not which one. I then have it reported by two people that standard NATO connectors have been in use too.
I'd love to unpick the illogical logic of this, but I'm going to need dome help!
It's going to be a matter of piecing together eras / roles / equipment needs etc.. to decipher which interfaces are used for what, and were used when!
With the power supplied for NVG's, did ANR headsets ever get supplied through the LEMO connectors too? (did Tornado crews use ANR headsets in the helmets? I've seen them on Jaguar with the external battery pack)
And then there's Jaguar and Harrier, but let's not go there for now!
Cheers, Scott
During my time on the GR1 and later association with the GR 4 sim (93-present) I only ever saw the multi pin connector to the helmet, and a right pain it was too once the helpful red dots had worn off!
Time has dulled things a little here but...Yes, I recall seeing one at Boscombe, but that could have been a pre production one for U.K. MRCA testing. Op leads were 8 pin Lemo, then 12 pin Lemo was introduced which included extra pins for NVG auto sep.
ANR was battery powered, for bagger Sea King, BBMF, SHAR, Hawk (no one claims to have seen this one) and Tucano. Later introduced on Gr7. Hawk T2 uses a later set up.
ANR was battery powered, for bagger Sea King, BBMF, SHAR, Hawk (no one claims to have seen this one) and Tucano. Later introduced on Gr7. Hawk T2 uses a later set up.
Only ever remember the multi-pin connector but in the test world we did have an adapter to convert a multi-pin helmet connection to a standard jack to ease the move from one type to another. Then someone decided the adapter was only cleared for ground use only... so more money had to be spent.
I have one of my old (circa '94) Alpha helmets here in my study, complete with the multi-pin plug.
I have one of my old (circa '94) Alpha helmets here in my study, complete with the multi-pin plug.
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Any NATO jackplug would be on developmental kit only I'd think.
The early F3 kit had a grey helmet pigtails with a half moon type connector. They were very susceptible to breaking when helmets were rested on them. Particularly Mk3c's. Also easily mashed by ham fisted aircrew.
The Lemo then came along. Much more robust.
The early F3 kit had a grey helmet pigtails with a half moon type connector. They were very susceptible to breaking when helmets were rested on them. Particularly Mk3c's. Also easily mashed by ham fisted aircrew.
The Lemo then came along. Much more robust.
Thread Starter
Hi all,
I'd be interested to learn about this eatly "half moon" connector. I did once have a Mk3C helmet with a grey pigtail lead and small silver LEMO plug (about half the length of modern ones, with no flexible strain relief). It had 50% male and 50% female contacts, very fine pins, is this what you are referring to?
Adaptors - I have a LEMO to NATO adaptor as described. It's interesting to hear it's cleared for ground use only as I had been led to believe it was for the NBC intercom box, which has NATO sockets and is only used on the ground. So these two thoughts do tie up.
Cheers, Scott
I'd be interested to learn about this eatly "half moon" connector. I did once have a Mk3C helmet with a grey pigtail lead and small silver LEMO plug (about half the length of modern ones, with no flexible strain relief). It had 50% male and 50% female contacts, very fine pins, is this what you are referring to?
Adaptors - I have a LEMO to NATO adaptor as described. It's interesting to hear it's cleared for ground use only as I had been led to believe it was for the NBC intercom box, which has NATO sockets and is only used on the ground. So these two thoughts do tie up.
Cheers, Scott
Thread Starter
Hi all,
This is the adaptor I have, and believe it to be intended for AR5, NBC intercom box use. Can anyone confirm this please?
The LEMO pin layout, is this the same as current Tornado?
I also have a helmet pigtail lead with a corresponding LEMO connector (in silver) for a MK4 helmet I'm one day going to rebuild.
Be nice to try and figure out when they went from silver to black.
Cheers,
This is the adaptor I have, and believe it to be intended for AR5, NBC intercom box use. Can anyone confirm this please?
The LEMO pin layout, is this the same as current Tornado?
I also have a helmet pigtail lead with a corresponding LEMO connector (in silver) for a MK4 helmet I'm one day going to rebuild.
Be nice to try and figure out when they went from silver to black.
Cheers,
Thread Starter
Hi Tashengurt,
Thank you for that! Much appreciated! After years in my collection, it was only this week I learnt it was possibly for NBC, and you have confirmed this nicely.
I had always assumed it was to allow Tornado crew to fly other types without changing their helmets, clearly this was wrong, especially with the adaptor not being cleared for flight!
Cheers, Scott
Thank you for that! Much appreciated! After years in my collection, it was only this week I learnt it was possibly for NBC, and you have confirmed this nicely.
I had always assumed it was to allow Tornado crew to fly other types without changing their helmets, clearly this was wrong, especially with the adaptor not being cleared for flight!
Cheers, Scott
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It'a amazing how those LEMO connectors get/got specified by some desk jockey for the most inappropriate installs.
Robust they are not, and a PIA to swap out once bent or crushed.
Still they look good and racy........
Robust they are not, and a PIA to swap out once bent or crushed.
Still they look good and racy........
Thread Starter
Yes, in a previous life we used LEMO connectors in scientific instruments, but a smaller diameter version to these ones. I recall the fiddly job of soldering numerous very fine multi-core wires to the contacts...
But they do look the business!
But they do look the business!
Thread Starter
Well would you believe it - Just had a quick look in the garage, and found an unissued Mk2 / Mk3 helmet pigtail with the older smaller LEMO connector!
14 tiny contacts, 7 male, 7 female.
I guess this is the type that was susceptible to damage?
I could actually now configure both a Mk3 and a Mk4 helmet to suit Tornado for display.
Now, it's tempting to make an assumption that the Mk12 PEC's shown in the diagrams here would suit this older smaller connector, as they appear to have smaller connectors on their cables. Those images are from 1975 and 1983 (the 1983 one could always be unrepresentative of what's actually in service though). I wonder what year the upgrade was made to the later bigger LEMO connector?
Cheers, Scott.
14 tiny contacts, 7 male, 7 female.
I guess this is the type that was susceptible to damage?
I could actually now configure both a Mk3 and a Mk4 helmet to suit Tornado for display.
Now, it's tempting to make an assumption that the Mk12 PEC's shown in the diagrams here would suit this older smaller connector, as they appear to have smaller connectors on their cables. Those images are from 1975 and 1983 (the 1983 one could always be unrepresentative of what's actually in service though). I wonder what year the upgrade was made to the later bigger LEMO connector?
Cheers, Scott.
At Boscombe Down we had Tornado PECs with standard UK NATO sockets so that we could use the same helmet in multiple aircraft types. Originally we had adaptors from LEMO but then the PECs were eventually reconfigured (I cannot remember when). I recall that Warton also had NATO sockets for their Tornados even before we did.
Thread Starter
Thanks LOMCEVAK, so some uses for NATO socket depending on the who was operating the aircraft I guess...
Tashengurt - do you mean the comprehensive tester with a "split head" on top? I recently acquired one of these, but need to find the manual!
Now, I've today found this rather bare PEC... I'm going to ask some questions, if anyone can confirm for me, I'd really appreciate it!
It's dated 1990, but the layout of where the hoses / bushes are on the shoe is quite different to the older Mk12's shown here so I assume this is a different Mk designation, and possibly not Tornado? Or maybe the Tornado PEC shoe plate evolved over time, or was different for different roles?
Is it Tornado?
Is it for AR-5 NBC? (The thin hose is black, usually an indicator of NBC rather than green, and the push-fitting on the end suits my AR-5)
Is it missing it's main air hose? (Ie: did the Tornado have a standard NBC setup like other aircraft with one big hose for air, the smaller for oxygen?)
Cheers, Scott.
Tashengurt - do you mean the comprehensive tester with a "split head" on top? I recently acquired one of these, but need to find the manual!
Now, I've today found this rather bare PEC... I'm going to ask some questions, if anyone can confirm for me, I'd really appreciate it!
It's dated 1990, but the layout of where the hoses / bushes are on the shoe is quite different to the older Mk12's shown here so I assume this is a different Mk designation, and possibly not Tornado? Or maybe the Tornado PEC shoe plate evolved over time, or was different for different roles?
Is it Tornado?
Is it for AR-5 NBC? (The thin hose is black, usually an indicator of NBC rather than green, and the push-fitting on the end suits my AR-5)
Is it missing it's main air hose? (Ie: did the Tornado have a standard NBC setup like other aircraft with one big hose for air, the smaller for oxygen?)
Cheers, Scott.
Last edited by ScottBouch; 28th Sep 2018 at 21:20.
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Scott, stretching my memory now but I'd say that's a Tonka AR5 PEC.
The tester I'm referring to is the little hand held black box with a rocker switch that would test the comms with simple go/ no go circuit and a couple of less.
The screaming skull gave a more comprehensive result.
The tester I'm referring to is the little hand held black box with a rocker switch that would test the comms with simple go/ no go circuit and a couple of less.
The screaming skull gave a more comprehensive result.
I think the Tornado AR5 had two supplies from the respirator, the main oxygen pipe (whistling handbag) and the smaller diameter one for demisting the visor/in aircraft use(?). If I recall we used the non NBC ones daily and the NBC ones were for taceval fun only. The spare Lemo leads for Mk4 helmets remained silver into the 2000s, although all night capable leads were black from the early 90s. The red ‘connection dot’ on the male/female ends were over painted white tintalite ink to make them easier to see at night, although bent pins were quite easy to fix once you developed the knack (quite often on Tornado, never needed to fix one on Harrier)..