ASW and 1982 South Atlantic War
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I have probably misunderstood the previous post, but wouldn’t it have been better to accept the offer of the Westinghouse radar specs rather than query the reps ethical behaviour?
Yes. I’m not sure who the quote is attributed to, but to have not taken up the offer immediately would seem extraordinary. I’m assuming it was taken up.
Then again - in what was an amazing feat of arms with great acts of ingenuity and heroism - there are a few other notable examples of ‘peacetime’ thinking and naivety.
Then again - in what was an amazing feat of arms with great acts of ingenuity and heroism - there are a few other notable examples of ‘peacetime’ thinking and naivety.
my copy is also ordered.
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Hi Nutloose,
You raise a good point. Forgive me for answering with a question.
How many weapons and systems are sold to a single customer? The point being that the U.K. could have bought a Westinghouse system if it wanted to.
Slightly more devious question. How many weapons and systems are sold where the customer has a 100% guarantee (and a way of assuring themselves that it’s true) that it’s not a watered down spec, or that the supplier (whether industry or state) may make details of the system available to others - either in a wartime assistance sense or as a precursor to further sales? Or that something critical wouldn’t be withheld (support, spares, crypto etc) in certain circumstances? Whether or not such dastardly practices are widespread it would be an optimistic customer who assumed that they weren’t.
You raise a good point. Forgive me for answering with a question.
How many weapons and systems are sold to a single customer? The point being that the U.K. could have bought a Westinghouse system if it wanted to.
Slightly more devious question. How many weapons and systems are sold where the customer has a 100% guarantee (and a way of assuring themselves that it’s true) that it’s not a watered down spec, or that the supplier (whether industry or state) may make details of the system available to others - either in a wartime assistance sense or as a precursor to further sales? Or that something critical wouldn’t be withheld (support, spares, crypto etc) in certain circumstances? Whether or not such dastardly practices are widespread it would be an optimistic customer who assumed that they weren’t.
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True, the only way to prevent that is to be at the top of the pile and producing home products, you then control the game. Sadly we had sold ourselves out many moons ago to the Americans, and sadly now are prostituted to their whims to the detriment of our home grown industries..
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
During Confrontation Indonesia had British search radars and Russian SAM. The search radar was supposedly effective to 35,000ft and their fighter control was limited to 30,000ft. How true this was I don't know but it was what Decca, I think, told us.
Thread Starter
From April 20, the planes departed with 3xMk46 torpedoes and 4x1000lb bombs. Three days later, ten brand new Stingray torpedoes arrived, and five Nimrod were wired to launch it.
Probably the more significant Nimrod ASW action was on April 18, helping to classify as NOSUB a contact first reported from RFA Olmeda and then investigated by HMS Alacrity, HMS Broadsword and three ASW helicopters.
And this is just the start: more on the way about April 1 chase on a Victor III, Stingray torpedoes being trialled and other things related to RAF ASW.
There is a lot of RAF ASW activity to be told!
Nimrod MR2 was also equipped to carry Sidewinder for Op CORPORATE. I was OC Armament at the base that did the necessary mods on Phantom LAU-7A launchers in double quick time over the Easter Bank Holiday long weekend 8-11 April 1982.
A Nimrod was flown in to enable a trial fit on underwing pylons.
I seem to remember carriage of BL755 and Harpoon being considered as well but that was outside my bailiwick at the time.
A Nimrod was flown in to enable a trial fit on underwing pylons.
I seem to remember carriage of BL755 and Harpoon being considered as well but that was outside my bailiwick at the time.
Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 28th Mar 2019 at 17:47.
Slightly more devious question. How many weapons and systems are sold where the customer has a 100% guarantee (and a way of assuring themselves that it’s true) that it’s not a watered down spec, or that the supplier (whether industry or state) may make details of the system available to others - either in a wartime assistance sense or as a precursor to further sales? Or that something critical wouldn’t be withheld (support, spares, crypto etc) in certain circumstances? Whether or not such dastardly practices are widespread it would be an optimistic customer who assumed that they weren’t.
Westinghouse - RN and RAF were within days of having to ground the SAR fleets in 1989, as Westinghouse pulled the plug on support at the last minute, having accepted a contract 18 months before. Luckily, the Design Authority (MEL) sales manager found supplies in a back street shop in Lagos. Inserted in little black book, and never engaged again while I managed fire control and surveillance radars. A very rare occurrence I might add.
Nimrod MR1 was also equipped to carry Sidewinder for Op CORPORATE. I was OC Armament at the base that did the necessary mods on Phantom LAU-7A launchers in double quick time over the Easter Bank Holiday long weekend 8-11 April 1982.
A Nimrod was flown in to enable a trial fit on underwing pylons.
I seem to remember carriage of BL755 and Harpoon being considered as well but that was outside my bailiwick at the time.
A Nimrod was flown in to enable a trial fit on underwing pylons.
I seem to remember carriage of BL755 and Harpoon being considered as well but that was outside my bailiwick at the time.
Sidewinder was both defensive and offensive if we came upon the 707 reece aircraft.
Article about the Argentinian B707 ELINT aircraft here:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-...the-falklands/
Can you imagine the headlines that would have been in "The Sun" if the Nimrod had got an air-to-air kill on the B707 ? Another distasteful "GOTCHYA !" no doubt.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-...the-falklands/
Can you imagine the headlines that would have been in "The Sun" if the Nimrod had got an air-to-air kill on the B707 ? Another distasteful "GOTCHYA !" no doubt.
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Which no doubt resonated with anyone in the TEZ. In Woodward’s book doesn’t he say something like ‘Gotcha’ reflected his feelings but he would have suffixed it with ‘You Bleeder’?!
Thread Starter
Well, future project about UK ASW during Op Corporate is progressing very well.
The RAF chapter is not so small after all. For example, I do not know Nimrod long range sorties included sonobuoy fields on areas of suspected Argentine submarines snorting (thanks Nimrod Boys for that info!). The submarine vs submarine chapter is also there, and so on.
If someone have pictures of the time down south and willing to share (ships, planes, helos or other ASW related themes), please let me know. Full credits will be given, of course.
Best regards!
Mariano
The RAF chapter is not so small after all. For example, I do not know Nimrod long range sorties included sonobuoy fields on areas of suspected Argentine submarines snorting (thanks Nimrod Boys for that info!). The submarine vs submarine chapter is also there, and so on.
If someone have pictures of the time down south and willing to share (ships, planes, helos or other ASW related themes), please let me know. Full credits will be given, of course.
Best regards!
Mariano
Article about the Argentinian B707 ELINT aircraft here:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-...the-falklands/
Can you imagine the headlines that would have been in "The Sun" if the Nimrod had got an air-to-air kill on the B707 ? Another distasteful "GOTCHYA !" no doubt.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-...the-falklands/
Can you imagine the headlines that would have been in "The Sun" if the Nimrod had got an air-to-air kill on the B707 ? Another distasteful "GOTCHYA !" no doubt.
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https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/55364
RAF Jet Kills
Smug or not, it would have been preferable to the actuality.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/55364
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/55364
Last edited by Rheinstorff; 25th May 2019 at 07:39. Reason: Spelling