You know the MPs must be on holiday when...

[charliegolf]

They've always complained. If all LL flying were stopped, they'd complain ablout something else.

[sittingstress]

I hate to be crude, but I think in this instance it is best to communicate at the (low) level of the complainers, therefore the sermon according to St Stress is: F@ck 'em.

[S'land]

I'd hazard a guess that most kids would love it it. As for the elderly - here's one old codger who wished we had some of this around here - all we get is boring old Merlins!

Here is another old codger who wishes there was more around. My first apartment in Germany I was right under one of the low flying routes for the Luftwaffe Eurofighter, choppers, etc. It was superb when i was at home to sit on the balcony and watch them fly down the valley. Slowly the number of Eurofighters diminished (see another thread for the reasons). In my last year in that apartment I did nor see one. Now i live in the town and the only flying things are leaves in the autumn, ducks an the odd police chopper.

[melmothtw]

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) said the exercises were an "essential part of operational training".

Just to play devil's advocate, but is it an essential part of operational training to repeatedly use this same circular tract of airspace time after time after time? Surely, most of those 'training' in it have flown the same route many times already, so given that the MoD has no plans (I assume) to launch air strikes against this particular part of Wales any time soon, what are they actually learning that will be relevant operationally?

Genuine question.

[typerated]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

Just to play devil's advocate, but is it an essential part of operational training to repeatedly use this same circular tract of airspace time after time after time? Surely, most of those 'training' in it have flown the same route many times already, so given that the MoD has no plans (I assume) to launch air strikes against this particular part of Wales any time soon, what are they actually learning that will be relevant operationally?

Genuine question.

Very true.

You can take it for granted that all the foreign aircraft that have used the loop recently have done so as a photo op.
I can sympathise with the locals - much of the trade round the loop are jollies and photo ops - operational training my bum!

[melmothtw]

I guess an analogy is the police. Everyone accepts the police need to drive fast, and to do this safely they need to practise. Now if that practise involved police cars from every nearby county and country hooning up and down your street day after day, week after week, for no obvious reason to yourself other than to satisfy some fanboy snappers stood at the side of the road, you might have something to say about it.

Assertions that it is necessary for operational training and that the sirens and revving engines are 'the sound of security' would ring a little hollow, I'd imagine.

[typerated]

Yes I agree.

Many many more aircraft go round 'the loop' than work Spadeadam at low level.
Does that not tell you all you need to know!

[RUCAWO]

The photo of the low level Tornado she was using on her Facebook page etc was taken by a friend of mine, to say he is not happy would be an understatement. He contacted her to demand it was taken down due to copywrite theft, it has been, and an invoice for its use over the few days will be in her inbox on Monday

[Foxtrot-Yankee]

Originally Posted by typerated

Yes I agree.

Many many more aircraft go round 'the loop' than work Spadeadam at low level.
Does that not tell you all you need to know!

Probably because Spade is permanently covered in cloud, and if it isn’t, kit unserviceablility or apparent lack of controller ability means that meaningful EW training is better done in the sim.

[typerated]

I don't remember West Wales having that much better weather than Cumbria!

Even if EW is not an option - Low fly around LFA 13 and using the targets I'm sure has more value than a none tactical jolly through the loop?