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Military legal advice.

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Military legal advice.

Old 29th Jul 2018, 11:20
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Also whilst you are on said det please remember to put your handbrake on whilst parked near other Aircraft!!
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 11:42
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Because some people behave like school children?
The 95% of people who had no involvement in the incident and whom now are on schoolchildlike "restrictions"?
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:24
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VinRouge ... perhaps a bit of peer pressure on the 5% from the innocent victims may be effective?

I have no idea what happened to trigger this group restriction, and I'm only guessing at the location.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:29
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I'd be extremely surprised if collective restrictions were introduced as the result of a single occurrence. There's more likely to have been a few, and there's only so many alcohol-related incidents (with the attendant reputational damage) that a commander can tolerate before his or her grip comes into question. Units with the best disciplinary records tend to be self-policing and collective restrictions are one way of incentivising development of such a culture. Repeatedly punishing individuals has its limitations on operational detachments: sending them home means that someone else has to deploy at short notice; disciplining them in-situ shoulders the detachment with the management burden and possible safety risk of a disgruntled idiot; and extending their tour simply lengthens that burden. It is far preferable to prevent such incidents, and until the military can find a way of filling 100% of its ranks with mature individuals* such as AUTHENTICATE, TOFO and VinRouge, the best way of doing that is to get idiots' mates to deal with the issue at source: whether that's telling them to stop drinking, escorting them back to the block, or even ensuring that it's the military (rather than local) police that pick them up. If a short period of restrictions successfully reminds everyone of that responsibility then it's a justifiable command decision, and leaders at every rank have a responsibility to 'suck it up' to help create the collective peer pressure that keeps the idiots in line. Simple as that. As for barrack room lawyers spouting BS about 'unlawful detention'... I presume you also think that orders not to visit certain locations when off-duty are an infringement of your personal liberty?

* My emphasis is intended as a criticism. If you want to be treated as an individual citizen with all the rights due to you under civil law then it's very simple. Be a civilian.

Last edited by Easy Street; 29th Jul 2018 at 12:50.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:36
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It may have not been intended that way, but asking for military legal advice on a public forum about being confined on Aki is a bit embarrassing.

Reminds me of my time on Ellamy...probably the most frustrating set of dets I’ve ever been a part of in terms of group punishments. You were on the bus, off the bus every other week. I remember being put on drink bans for cock ups at det locations hundreds of miles away. One such drink ban imposed on the troops was because of a drink induced incident by an SO1!

The best bit was being forced to sign a “contract” as ac captain that was inserted into the F5000 that said if any of your crew gets into trouble, you are held personally liable and subject to punishment. How on earth was I able to police the crew 24/7?!

Last edited by VigilantPilot; 29th Jul 2018 at 15:04.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:55
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^ I gather that the vast majority of those currently confined are not on a drink ban, which makes the OP's complaint all the more ridiculous. Anyone for sundowners?
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 13:19
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Assuming it is an RAF complaint (and also assuming it’s not a wind up) I think it’s fair to say any Army or Navy guys reading this right now will probably be laughing their c0cks off.

Do we not get enough ‘civilians in uniform’ banter already?!

BV
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 13:42
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Easy Street ... Thanks for typing at length what I implied! ^
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 16:32
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The real issue here is making PPRuNe your first port of call and whinging like a baby. Real aircrew with a fighting spirit will find a way to the Aki Arms and to hell with the consequences.

Make it happen so that we can all believe all is not lost.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 17:12
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Originally Posted by Easy Street View Post
Since you mention a ‘different fleet’ within one det, you must be on operations on a camp that has within its perimeter a beach club, karting track, cinema, several bars, shops, food outlets, coffee shops, clifftop running routes etc.

Confined to camp for a bit while on an operational detachment? Get over yourself.
Theres one det working constant 12 hour shifts. When you're not working you are sleeping and it's soon back to work again. The one day off per week was wasted as you tried to adjust to changing shifts. Don't confuse the det with the permanent staff (who complain that they now need to do some work thanks to the det)

The beach club was shut down long time ago. I never knew going for a run was a privilege !

Could be worse... your det could have been the only people confined to camp just because one person saw an article in the daily heil saying WW3 was going to happen. While the rest were driving past out of camp and carried on as normal.


Last edited by gr4techie; 29th Jul 2018 at 17:26.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 20:11
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Assuming it is an RAF complaint (and also assuming it’s not a wind up) I think it’s fair to say any Army or Navy guys reading this right now will probably be laughing their c0cks off.

Do we not get enough ‘civilians in uniform’ banter already?!

BV
It’s a fairly routine occurrence in the RN. I was in a position to put one messdeck in such a situation, but the wiser heads in that mess came to me and said they were placing their mess on a “voluntary” beer and run ashore ban...
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 11:59
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If you want to be treated as an individual citizen with all the rights due to you under civil law then it's very simple. Be a civilian.
I could not agree more. As a mate once put it (A Cat, Sqn Exec, could paper his bathroom with AOCs,) when we were sunning ourselves on his yacht.

"The RAF is great and I loved every moment. But one day you wake up and realise you have outgrown it...then its time to go." He left and 41 and I left at 46, guess it took me longer to grow up
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