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Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

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Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

Old 19th May 2020, 13:18
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Difference is that Cranwell was a crazy busy training base with CFS, EFTS, METS, Doms all trying to do their busy training thing. Waddo not so much.
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Old 19th May 2020, 13:32
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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No idea what the sortie rate is at XW these days. But when we had 4 x Vulcan sqns it wasn’t that busy. A fair %ge of traffic was Practice Diversions etc. I can’t imagine the ‘clever jets’ are launching 6-8 per hour, or doing a lot of ‘circuit bashing’.
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Old 19th May 2020, 13:38
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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The Reds operated from Waddington before being asked to move to Cranwell back in the day. The problem will not be space (a new complex is being built for Wedgetail and drone squadrons at the far side of the airfield) but if they start booking the runway for the 15-30 minute slots for take-off and landing that they did 20 odd years ago. The ISTAR aircraft both running live ops and major exercises suddenly couldn't depart at suitable times - especially when the Reds booking slipped for 30 minutes because of weather and a very expensive to run Boeing 707 was left running its engines in dispersal for the best part of an hour. Also problems coming back from ops when ISTAR arrival coincided with a Reds booking. There were a couple of diversions of crews returning from Ops deployments and not a lot of good will between operational aircrew who were treated as second class citizens because of an air display team. Priorities needed to be seriously looked at!! Hopefully it will work, but a certain team need to show a bit more flexibility than last time having been used to having their own way at their own airfield for a long time!!

...and before we get the "ISTAR can change its take-off times to suit" argument, just think how many of the ISTAR customers will also have to change their flying programmes in order to receive the service. Cancel the War in the Adriatic - the AWACS is delayed 45 minutes because the Reds have the runway booked! (Yes - it did happen).
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Old 19th May 2020, 15:10
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
Difference is that Cranwell was a crazy busy training base with CFS, EFTS, METS, Doms all trying to do their busy training thing. Waddo not so much.
No EFTS at Cranditz at the time.

No aircraft movements 15 mins before to 15 mins after a Reds movement completely screwed 45(R), 55(R) not so much owing to the sortie length, but screwed over anyway. Either way, co-locating RAFAT with other types, training or operational, is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 19th May 2020, 18:21
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Be a moot point when they are binned in the forthcoming cuts....
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Old 19th May 2020, 20:36
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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An absolute Class 1, Grade A PITA when at Scampton in terms of CSF activities, during the late 80s and early 90s.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:09
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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If the Reds are going to practice overhead Scampton the plan seems to work but being the Reds take nothing for granted. Are they just going to join the queue to taxy 3 times a day and accept the E3 in front of them, or will the rules allow them special privileges like the E3 has to wait or get out of the way? The Reds having there own airfield and airspace happened for a reason, interesting times ahead.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 21:16
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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I understand they intend to use the airspace over Scampton for practice. This raises a question or two from me.

- Is the MOD intending to keep the runway at Scampton serviceable on the off-chance a hawk needs it in a hurry mid practice?
I know there is no safety-net runway beneath them when they do their public displays but their frequency is somewhat lower than the 3-sorties a day practicing.

- I know Waddo and Scampton are only around 10nm apart but there does happen to be a rather large city betwix the two with a population of 3/4 million people. Did I see that one of the considerations for choosing Waddo was the safety of the general public? Does Waddo option make sense on safety grounds?

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Old 23rd May 2020, 21:26
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
I understand they intend to use the airspace over Scampton for practice. This raises a question or two from me.

- Is the MOD intending to keep the runway at Scampton serviceable on the off-chance a hawk needs it in a hurry mid practice?
I've not seen any mention of what is or isn't happening at Scampton in terms of future runway ops, especially given that HHA operate their Hunters on the mil register on contract work from Scampton, and so far have not seen rumours of them moving their operation to another location.........?

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Old 23rd May 2020, 21:34
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I've not seen any mention of what is or isn't happening at Scampton in terms of future runway ops, especially given that HHA operate their Hunters on the mil register on contract work from Scampton, and so far have not seen rumours of them moving their operation to another location.........?
Thanks GeeRam, from what see there is that intention to close Scampton in 2022. Interesting to see how it all turns out.

I still think Leeming as a base and Linton airspace for practice would have been the better (safer) option.
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Old 25th May 2020, 09:13
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
Thanks GeeRam, from what see there is that intention to close Scampton in 2022. Interesting to see how it all turns out.

I still think Leeming as a base and Linton airspace for practice would have been the better (safer) option.
d'accord! But what would we Air Traffickers know about airspace management? (although I'm sure the CAA would have made a complete meal out of moving the Reds' avoidance area. Which is why, I suspect, this sensible, obvious option wasn't selected)
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Old 25th May 2020, 09:22
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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How about training over Donna instead?

It's a bit of a transit but otherwise a nice protected unused blob of airspace for the taking..
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Old 25th May 2020, 09:26
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land View Post
d'accord! But what would we Air Traffickers know about airspace management? (although I'm sure the CAA would have made a complete meal out of moving the Reds' avoidance area. Which is why, I suspect, this sensible, obvious option wasn't selected)
I'm guessing that's exactly what happened, as there was indeed an application by MOD in to do exactly that some time ago, so I'm guessing the answer was indeed a no?

Which then begs the question what happens after 2022?

And where will HHA go, if all air movements at Scampton cease after that, assuming of course they have a MOD contract beyond that time?



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Old 25th May 2020, 14:50
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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The CAA wouldn't just say 'no' per se; that's not in their gift. But they would probably insist on the MoD going through the whole new ACP system at the cost of £100ks to the taxpayer, while they haven't got the personnel to staff the issue anyway. Given the no of ACPs stuck in "the (very blocked) pipeline", one could expect a decision in about 2029 or so.....
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Old 26th May 2020, 13:46
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I'm guessing that's exactly what happened, as there was indeed an application by MOD in to do exactly that some time ago, so I'm guessing the answer was indeed a no?

Which then begs the question what happens after 2022?

And where will HHA go, if all air movements at Scampton cease after that, assuming of course they have a MOD contract beyond that time?
As far as I'm aware HHA do not, and have not had contracts directly with the MOD since at least March 2016, most likely only working to Prime contractors which MOD doesn't need to be made aware of. There's also the question of what they pay to utilise Scampton as according to the department "no information has been found to determine what arrangements might be in place regarding the rental of infrastructure and utilities at RAF Scampton". Begs the question as to whether they have been living there on grace and favour terms.
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