Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Scampton And Linton-on-Ouse Closure

Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:15
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 796
Don't forget I believe 33 Sqn's groundcrew as well Ken
The remaining airmen of 30 & 33 Sqn were indeed heavily involved in the defence although not all were equipped with rifles & a large number were killed or captured as the German gliders landed during breakfast! Those that were able to take part in the defence fought bravely and Churchill’s later comments about ‘civilians in uniform’ were grossly unfair to them. I have spent some time in Crete at the annual commemorations including talking to Jack Baker, who was an LAC on 30 (& their last surviving veteran), he spent the whole day in a trench sniping at the Germans as they tried to cross the Tavronatis Bridge. His friend stayed behind to cover their withdrawal & was killed, Jack’s description of events whilst standing by his grave at Souda Bay CWGC were very moving.

The decision to withdraw from Hill 107 on the basis of poor intelligence by the NZ company commander gifted the airfield to the Germans who had been on the point of surrendering and allowed them to fly in reinforcements, the loss of Crete was then a given.

It seems to me a sensible provision for the RAF to protect its own airfields rather than rely on the army and gives comfort to the aircrew knowing that the ground forces doing the force protection take their role seriously. There were a few incidents in Iraq & Afghanistan at TLZs were the job wasn’t done properly by the army, in some cases leading to the loss of ac.
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:16
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: raf
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by jagnut View Post
the RAF Regiment, do they do anything that the Army can't?
I thought the only point of the RAF Reg was to show us the same incredibly boring SERE film every year and then try to dab talcum powder on your face while holding your breath and not coughing.
gr4techie is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,549
Notwithstanding the thread drift concerning the RAF Regiment and the Army, I cannot help thinking that savings made by 'maintaining' Scampton won't amount to very much, given that such little 'care and maintenance' has been ongoing.
BEagle is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,864
Sad to see Linton is for the chop - one of the happiest years of my life despite the efforts of my primary QFI ( ex Nimrod ) who was a seriously unpleasant man ! Great memories of 36 Course.

Scampton will tug many heart strings despite the state it has been allowed to fall into. Surely something could be done with the Officers Mess to incorporate the museum and associated with the new Bomber Command memorial. I did a course there about thirty years ago and was surprised how little history was evident. As for the grave of Nigger, well there have been so many stories about it over the years, I doubt if anyone knows the truth.

I make no apologies for not being PC above !
beamer is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:35
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,230
Bearing in mind what all of the non 617 squadron groundcrews did to that grave it was never held in that much respect or esteem by the RAF.
pr00ne is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:43
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,475
Originally Posted by beamer View Post
Sad to see Linton is for the chop - one of the happiest years of my life despite the efforts of my primary QFI ( ex Nimrod ) who was a seriously unpleasant man ! Great memories of 36 Course.

Scampton will tug many heart strings despite the state it has been allowed to fall into. Surely something could be done with the Officers Mess to incorporate the museum and associated with the new Bomber Command memorial. I did a course there about thirty years ago and was surprised how little history was evident. As for the grave of Nigger, well there have been so many stories about it over the years, I doubt if anyone knows the truth.

I make no apologies for not being PC above !
https://www.purcelluk.com/projects/raf-scampton

https://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/news...118111.article


Hangars are listed BTW
NutLoose is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:50
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,480
The loss of Linton will certainly simplify getting airspace for RAFAT practice 'oop there, based at Leeming..
MPN11 is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northumberland
Age: 61
Posts: 736
This is about the the future of over 600 personnel, military and civilian. Get a grip. Nobody cares about name calling and who did what course when in the 60s. Seriously, NOBODY cares.
​​​​​​​
Wyler is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,475
Is there any advantage weather wise between Valley and Linton? I still think chopping airfields is a drastic measure, once gone you cannot bring them back, far better sticking someone else on them so in the future they can be available.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:16
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 78
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by FantomZorbin View Post
. But would the army do it?
The Army could do it but why would they? The Army's job is to manoeuvre aggressively on the battlefield, close with the enemy and kill him. The RAF Regt is a reactive guard force. A bloody good one but a guard force.
Clockwork Mouse is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 796
Except that ‘someone else’ is usually the army whose first act always seems to be to render the runways unfit for aviation.
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:19
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,475
https://www.britishlistedbuildings.c...ngars-scampton

Hangars and associated buildings are listed, one would imaging a developer won't exactly be over the moon with that.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:22
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,480
Originally Posted by Clockwork Mouse View Post

The Army could do it but why would they? The Army's job is to manoeuvre aggressively on the battlefield, close with the enemy and kill him. The RAF Regt is a reactive guard force. A bloody good one but a guard force.
Wiki ... "and in depth defence of airfields by way of aggressive patrolling a large area of operations outside airfields in hostile environments." Not quite so 'reactive', it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Regiment
MPN11 is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:33
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 796
Agree MPN11, RAF Regt’s active clearance of the airfield environs was always preferred to the US’s reactive approach which would hit with massive force the area where an aggressor had fired from but only after you had been shot at.
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:41
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,670
Please pardon the thread drift again, but...

This is not a straight out dig but just a genuine query.

Why are/were RAF AT not more willing to drop personnel straight off at their home base after a detachment rather than making hundreds of people drive the length of the country to arrive and depart via Brize (or wherever it used to be)?

It seems to me that the Army might have been more willing to leave runways unmolested if they thought it might be to their advantage to leave it serviceable.

A company/battalion/battlegroup that has spent several months deployed to somewhere sh1tty might be quite appreciative of a drop off at home. Especially if home happens to be in Scotland.

We always blame the Army for screwing up runways but could the RAF have helped itself a little more in this regard?

I realise people’s immediate reaction will be to tell me to STFU, but do I have a point? Or am I just going to get a chorus of ‘crew duty’?!

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:42
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 78
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Wiki ... "and in depth defence of airfields by way of aggressive patrolling a large area of operations outside airfields in hostile environments." Not quite so 'reactive', it seems.
Oh dear. Alright, I will concede that they are an aggressive guard force. Still not an appropriate task for the army. Please keep it.
Clockwork Mouse is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 78
Posts: 645
Bob Viking. As a Pongo I would certainly credit you with having a point. A very sensible one. You must be an ex Jaguar pilot?
Clockwork Mouse is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
This is not a straight out dig but just a genuine query.

Why are/were RAF AT not more willing to drop personnel straight off at their home base after a detachment rather than making hundreds of people drive the length of the country to arrive and depart via Brize (or wherever it used to be)?

It seems to me that the Army might have been more willing to leave runways unmolested if they thought it might be to their advantage to leave it serviceable.

A company/battalion/battlegroup that has spent several months deployed to somewhere sh1tty might be quite appreciative of a drop off at home. Especially if home happens to be in Scotland.

We always blame the Army for screwing up runways but could the RAF have helped itself a little more in this regard?

I realise people’s immediate reaction will be to tell me to STFU, but do I have a point? Or am I just going to get a chorus of ‘crew duty’?!

BV
Bob, You need a pretty serious crash cat for a transport aircraft full of pax, so getting the appropriate number of fire engines to your runway at an army base would be n issue. The other reason ( excuse) they always quoted was passenger and baggage handling equipment , ie steps, conveyor belts and things.. Oh yes and PCN/ LCN.
Timelord is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,670
Timelord

I understand the reasons you say and I guess it might not work everywhere. But take Kinloss as an example. Once upon a time it could handle heavy aircraft. Why would that suddenly stop?

It’s easy to find reasons why not but I bet an Army Garrison CO could have found ways to borrow steps and fire engines if it meant helping his Soldiers out.

I know it’s a simplistic view but the military is meant to be a ‘can do’ organisation, not a ‘can’t do’ organisation.

As an example. A 54 Sqn detachment to Turkey in 2004/5 ended up with many personnel being flown directly into Coltishall in a VC10 with dysentery.

If it could be done then, why couldn’t it be done more often?

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 13:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: EU Land
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by Wyler View Post
This is about the the future of over 600 personnel, military and civilian. Get a grip. Nobody cares about name calling and who did what course when in the 60s. Seriously, NOBODY cares.
​​​​​​​
Any word on relocation for 1ACC, or in the wonderful new world of the Air Ops Branch will everyone go to Swanwick?
skippedonce is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.