UK Future Fighter
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UK Jet Trainer
You never know, it might even prove worth doing/having?
We had an industry based on aircraft before and we have the brains to start a new one - but - we must walk before we can run.
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It builds confidence in the manufacturing business in readiness for a future fighter programme - you have to treat this as a new company designing and producing a new aircraft...
You never know, it might even prove worth doing/having?
We had an industry based on aircraft before and we have the brains to start a new one - but - we must walk before we can run.
You never know, it might even prove worth doing/having?
We had an industry based on aircraft before and we have the brains to start a new one - but - we must walk before we can run.
The UK hasn't produced a front line FJ on its own in decades and I don't think it could do so now from a standing start. Plus, I very much like the idea of options beyond BAeS.
Sun.
It builds confidence in the manufacturing business in readiness for a future fighter programme - you have to treat this as a new company designing and producing a new aircraft...
You never know, it might even prove worth doing/having?
We had an industry based on aircraft before and we have the brains to start a new one - but - we must walk before we can run.
You never know, it might even prove worth doing/having?
We had an industry based on aircraft before and we have the brains to start a new one - but - we must walk before we can run.
It is interesting to note that the barriers to frictionless trade that are being blamed for the tsunami of briefings about pulling out from the UK this week appear to originate primarily in Brussels. There is little discernible reason to impose tariffs and extra customs demands on goods and services, other than at the behest of the EU Commission. Strangely this appears to be exclusively the fault of the UK for having the temerity to express a desire to leave the EU construct. A situation resulting in what has been described as a punishment beating - or at very least demanding money with menaces, which only reinforces the decision in this reluctant leaver to vote leave in the first place.
Were it not for the utterly shambolic state of party politics at the minute, one suspects HMG would have a more robust position than it is currently deploying. It is a fact that trade with Asia and the Americas can be made relatively frictionless, given a desire to make it work, what possible difference can there be with the EU?
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Aim: Design and produce a warplane for RAF with export baked in from the start.
Assumptions: UK lead and export desire rules out US partnership.
France and Germany ruled out as a break away team.
More partners desired to stump up for costs.
Fewer partners desired to avoid NETMA-esque shambles.
’States of concern’ not likely partners.
UK industry, capacity, skills, funding likely to support a single large programme.
Export competition hot and unlikely to feature a high volume market for a high spec system.
RAF unlikely to write requirement for low spec system.
Sounds like quite the problem to crack.
But it may give us one day in the sunshine when we announce our plans with new found confidence and dare to believe.
Thank goodness it’s nigh on impossible to arrive at a cost per copy of Typhoon - or a realistic assessment of its capabilities - perhaps we can use this as a model for extolling the virtues of whatever it is we set out to produce.
My £5 goes on an achievement that absolutely nails ‘expensive mediocrity’.
Assumptions: UK lead and export desire rules out US partnership.
France and Germany ruled out as a break away team.
More partners desired to stump up for costs.
Fewer partners desired to avoid NETMA-esque shambles.
’States of concern’ not likely partners.
UK industry, capacity, skills, funding likely to support a single large programme.
Export competition hot and unlikely to feature a high volume market for a high spec system.
RAF unlikely to write requirement for low spec system.
Sounds like quite the problem to crack.
But it may give us one day in the sunshine when we announce our plans with new found confidence and dare to believe.
Thank goodness it’s nigh on impossible to arrive at a cost per copy of Typhoon - or a realistic assessment of its capabilities - perhaps we can use this as a model for extolling the virtues of whatever it is we set out to produce.
My £5 goes on an achievement that absolutely nails ‘expensive mediocrity’.
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Every defence programme is "export oriented" at kick-off but we constantly finish up with high end kit that is of no interest to most countries.
no-one has come asking for a new T 45, tho I'm sure they'll be easy to get rid of in 25years time. The French are willing to acceptslightly lower specs to shift units and lower the unit cost
no-one has come asking for a new T 45, tho I'm sure they'll be easy to get rid of in 25years time. The French are willing to acceptslightly lower specs to shift units and lower the unit cost
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And there's the Brexit delusion, right there - you have nothing beyond pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. Meanwhile, companies that employ thousands of UK workers and which contribute billions to the country's GDP tell it how it really is, and you dismiss it as dummy spitting. God help us.
There is little discernible reason to impose tariffs and extra customs demands on goods and services, other than at the behest of the EU Commission. Strangely this appears to be exclusively the fault of the UK for having the temerity to express a desire to leave the EU construct.
Trade agreements with other countries, the EU cant break them so manufacturing in the UK becomes unviable. Its not a choice by Airbus, BMW, Jaguar etc its reality.
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They will build an all singing all dancing multi role aircraft in association with somewhere like India, then realise the naval variant will not launch from our ageing carriers resulting in a mega expensive carrier refit to add catapults to facilitate them..
they also seem willing to accept burning ships as the price for exports (that as has been pointed out, no one wants) - whats your view on that Harry, good defence planning, or the actions of an idiot?
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I'm surprised no one has latched onto this.
https://www.ft.com/content/9b6d7af6-...3-6c13e5c92914
Turkey and UK battle to save fighter jet project
Given Brexit such a deal should be right down the UK's alley, no?
https://www.ft.com/content/fd8f45ba-...1-31da4279a601
https://www.ft.com/content/9b6d7af6-...3-6c13e5c92914
Turkey and UK battle to save fighter jet project
Given Brexit such a deal should be right down the UK's alley, no?
Turkish and UK ministers are battling to save a flagship partnership to develop a fifth generation fighter jet. Rolls-Royce, the British aero-engine group, has been working with Turkish industrial giant Kale to bid for the engine development contract on the TF-X jet, an ambitious project to produce Turkey’s first indigenous combat aircraft. A dispute has emerged over the role of a company with close ties to Qatar and Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Failure to strike a deal would be a lost revenue opportunity for Rolls-Royce — and BAE Systems, which is also involved. Far more important, however, are the ramifications for the UK’s air defence capability. The TF-X could also help to fix a pressing problem at home. Production of the Eurofighter Typhoon will cease in the mid-2020s...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Heathrow Harry:
”Every defence programme is "export oriented" at kick-off but we constantly finish up with high end kit that is of no interest to most countries. No-one has come asking for a new T 45, tho I'm sure they'll be easy to get rid of in 25years time. The French are willing to acceptslightly lower specs to shift units and lower the unit cost
”Every defence programme is "export oriented" at kick-off but we constantly finish up with high end kit that is of no interest to most countries. No-one has come asking for a new T 45, tho I'm sure they'll be easy to get rid of in 25years time. The French are willing to acceptslightly lower specs to shift units and lower the unit cost
BAE wins multi-billion pound Australian warship contract
British defence giant BAE Systems has won a multi-billion pound contract from the Australian government to build nine new warships, marking a significant victory for British military exports.
BAE beat Italian and Spanish rivals to win a large slice of the £19.6bn ($25.7bn; A$35bn) spending programme. The ships will be based on anti-submarine frigates that BAE is building for the UK's Royal Navy.......
Last edited by ORAC; 29th Jun 2018 at 06:37.
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Someone is going to have to explain to me how a ship built in Australia, by Australians, qualifies for that headline.
It seems to me that ‘we’ have sold a design to someone - not a capability - and how that makes our kit better, cheaper or earlier is (sadly!) beyond me.
It seems to me that ‘we’ have sold a design to someone - not a capability - and how that makes our kit better, cheaper or earlier is (sadly!) beyond me.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
And you think all the aircraft in a joint programme would be built in the UK? Nloke the Tornado, Typhoon and F-35? Or any other export sales where the airframes are assembled locally?
I believe the usual response is that while the hull may be built locally, most of the systems inside - such as the RR engines, radars, C4I systems etc - will be sourced from the primary UK manufacturers - and doubling the number ordered reduces the price across the board.
I believe the usual response is that while the hull may be built locally, most of the systems inside - such as the RR engines, radars, C4I systems etc - will be sourced from the primary UK manufacturers - and doubling the number ordered reduces the price across the board.
Evertonian
Cheaper - Volume. Parts, repairs, expertise, etc
Earlier - More investment. It could expedite the development.
The projected fleet's just been doubled.