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Hunter endurance anybody?

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Hunter endurance anybody?

Old 22nd Jun 2018, 18:20
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My only 2nd hand contribution to the original question ... when Tengah’s 20 Sqn Hunter FGA9s went to Seletar for Major Servicing, they were stripped of everything. Tanks, Pylons, Gun pod, Sabrinas etc. There was a roster as to who would fly it there, Utterly clean, and stripped to the bone, it apparently generated 20 minutes of intensive fun before a fuel priority recovery to Seletar.
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 16:02
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Originally Posted by MPN11
My only 2nd hand contribution to the original question ... when Tengah’s 20 Sqn Hunter FGA9s went to Seletar for Major Servicing, they were stripped of everything. Tanks, Pylons, Gun pod, Sabrinas etc. There was a roster as to who would fly it there, Utterly clean, and stripped to the bone, it apparently generated 20 minutes of intensive fun before a fuel priority recovery to Seletar.
Gun pod???? Never saw a Hunter with one of those.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 08:52
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Originally Posted by kenparry
Gun pod???? Never saw a Hunter with one of those.
Sorry ... gun tank, or at last the heavy internals I believe.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 09:38
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Gun Pack ----
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 10:37
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Thanks
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 10:49
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Of course the GT6 had no radar, gunpack, gun sight, or sabrinas and was painted in a polyurethane high gloss go faster raspberry ripple colour scheme. Which resulted in this 'trainer' being somewhat quicker than a greased weasel with its tail aflame.

I wonder what it would have been like without tanks or pylons?

Did you ever fly a GT6 in that configuration, jinda'?

Last edited by BEagle; 24th Jun 2018 at 11:47.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 11:25
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Only once that I recorded - and that was after jettisoning the tanks shortly after take-off due to engine vibration - 24 June 75. Bloody hell - 43 years ago to the day!
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 11:58
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Time certainly flies, eh Jinda'?

Some 8 months after your event, I'd just taken off from Brawdy and felt some unusual vibration through the airframe, which eased a bit when I slowed down, but was still there every time I turned... So I was advised to jettison the tanks into St Brides Bay and RTB with a fixed throttle approach. All went OK, but a tyre burst on landing, debris from which somehow managed to bend the pitot tube.

After the engine was tested following a check of bleed valve operation, it was cleared as being OK.

Then some experienced Hunter mate told me that, if the nosewheel rubbing block wasn't properly connecting with the tyre to slow it down after retraction, it could still be rotating 10 min later - and if it was out of balance, it would certainly cause the vibration I'd experienced. Oh well....

A mate of mine joked to one of the humourless USN people from the Biscuit Factory "I hope that (BEagle) didn't blow your headphones off when he dropped his tanks on your cables!". A stony faced silence followed as we weren't supposed to know about SOSUS in those days....

When Happiness Was Hunter Shaped!
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 18:03
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I recall reading some years ago that there was one particular Hunter pilot who had most of the highest/fastest/longest records - the “longest” sticks in my mind for some reason, southern england to a base in Libya on one tankful. It was often touted to dispel all the talk of “30 minutes and get down” from the F.1 days.

All from foggy memory and therefore dubious.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 18:32
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Thanks everyone, I've really enjoyed reading all your posts. I was just so dubious at the idea of him being reached after such a time in the air. I suppose he could have been flying in circles.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 13:44
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southern england to a base in Libya on one tankful.
You would probably need an average tailwind of about 150kt to manage that. We used to do West Raynham - Luqa - El Adem, and with 2 x 230 gal and 2 x 100 tanks on the FGA9, there would not be much left on arrival at Luqa with typical winds. That would be about 2hr 40 min, with another 1hr 30 or so for the second leg.

My longest was Gib - West Raynham, same tank fit, 3hr 00 min. We landed with just about enough for a Marham diversion. The plan had been Gib - St Mawgan; the TAF was OK, 3nm & 1000ft or so, but it went out in sea fog...……………. so we stayed high & stumbled on across England at FL480.

Happy days!
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 05:34
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https://peek-01.livejournal.com/102931.html

After the retirement of Neville Duke, Hawker then appointed Merewether as its chief experimental test pilot. On the 2 October 1958, he flew a Hunter Mk.6 non-stop to El Adem, Libya (a distance of 1,588 nautical miles) in three hours and 19 minutes (at an average of 548 miles-per-hour). The aircraft carried the new 230-gallon (1,046-litre) fuel tanks on the inboard wing pylons with a pair of 100-gallon tanks mounted on the outer.
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 08:54
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Rvusa

This must have been a specially modified F6 as the F6 never carried 230gal drop tanks in service - the inboard hardpoints weren't cleared for them . It was only when modified to F6A which included strengthening the hardpoints that 230gal drop tanks were cleared for the inboard pylons. I also suspect that this particular F6 was stripped down and that it din't land at El Adem with much in the way of reserves. Certainly my experience and that of other posters above is that 2¾ hours was about as far as as in-service a/c could go landing with a degree of diversion fuel. or 3hrs without

KenP

Your Gib-West Raynham sounds a bit like my Gib-Brawdy. TAFs were fine at launch for our en-route div of Porto and wx div of St Mawgan but both went out in sea fog however Brawdy was OK (just!) so we pressed on. St Athan was now the only div (no Chivenor in those days) and we hadn't enough fuel to land with that so Brawdy held all recoveries until we were down.
Your 3hrs must have been very tight indeed.
.
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 09:44
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This must have been a specially modified F6 as the F6 never carried 230gal drop tanks in service
From the date, I suspect it was XF374, which Hawkers retained for a while as a development aircraft. I have an undated photo of it at Dunsfold with that tank fit, but no brake chute fairing. Whichever airframe Hugh used, it must have been very clean and highly polished to get 3hr 19min!

The other reason the standard F6 did not carry the 230 gallon tanks is that the flaps needed the outboard corners cut back for the big tanks.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 15:18
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Originally Posted by BEagle
The C-130 took off at 05:10 and crashed 1:45 hours later. Which means at around 06:55. The chances of anyone at Chivenor being rounded up to generate a Hunter at that time on a Friday morning, in time to be armed, take-off and make a visual intercept are zero.

Ball ammunition was invariably used for range firing, rather than HE. F6 only flew with one gun available, although the FGA9 might have had two available. So spotters, sorry but no way would a Chivenor Hunter with 4 x 30mm Aden cannon with HE rounds have been available at that time of day!

The Hunter myth is clearly total bolleaux!
Anybody else wondering what BEagle was up to that morning? He doth protest too much n'est pas??
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 16:09
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On the date in question I would have been enjoying the delights of Flight Cadet training at RAFC on 99 Entry.....
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 20:59
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You are forgetting that in that time long long ago it was a "Can Do" Airforce.
A phone call direct to the Station Commander,who then called the SDO and Orderly Sgt, would have a good chance of having several SNCOs including Armourers at the line in a few minutes. I was not at Brawdy so I do not know how they operated, but there is a good chance that some of the aircraft had valid Before Flight Servicings ready for the first wave and that several gun packs were loaded,in the Armoury, and ready to go as well. The Staish would also, no doubt, have authorised himself for the sortie! So it could have been possible to launch in about an hour from the call. So saying that it is still too late for an intercept. The biggest problem would have been persuading the Guard Room to hand out the keys!
All this without a herd of Duty Holders, Health and Safety Persons or a Diversity Advisor.
We heard nothing about a Hunter at the time. I strongly suspect it is all fiction.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 22:02
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Tengah Type , the only Hunters at RNAS Brawdy in 1969 would have been a few T8s and some GA11s. The GA11 wasn't fitted with guns and the T8 had but a single gun which would have had to have been loaded manually rather than by fitting a gun pack.

Given the distance from Brawdy to the last known location of the C-130, an even earlier take-off time would have been required than from RAF Chivenor. Communications at Brawdy were rather primitive; even when I was there in 1975-6 the internal exchange was still manual - you had to lift the receiver and wait for Jones-the-phone to answer, then request the extension...

Fitting a loaded gun pack to a Chivenor Hunter simply wouldn't have been feasible in the time available.

I always thought that station call-outs in the early hours were fairly straightforward affairs. To cause true chaos, initiate the call-out at around 07:45 - 08:15! Or at 17:30 on a Friday. I once ran a Mineval at Wattisham; the first inject was a 'disaffected airman' who'd been 'blackmailed' to bring an IED into the COC in one of those scruffy little sports bag things everyone used (and which were never searched). But he was such a miserable sod that it took around 10 minutes before anyone noticed his unusual behaviour - I watched the resulting chaos with much amusement as the boltholing staff collided with people still responding to the call-out.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 08:50
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Tengah Type I think that you are being very optimistic with your reaction times and having a bunch of sleepy disgruntled armourers at the line 'in a few minutes' is unrealistic. I would say at least 30' from initially rounding them up and that would in itself be remarkable. As to the ready-prepped gunpacks, these would have been loaded with practice rounds i.e. ball and from what I recall from my time at Chivenor and Brawdy only two guns were ever pre-loaded. Even in those days where the words Health & Safety were yet to be thought up, it is inconceivable to me that, in peacetime, gunpacks would have been stored with HE ammunition as a matter of course. However, someone better placed may correct me.

All in all, taking into account the time of day, the chain of command, the ancient comms system and human reaction times, I cannot see a Chivenor Hunter being ready in less than an hour from the first moment that the US called for help even if they did so which is open to question. By this time the horse had well and truly bolted..
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 09:05
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Originally Posted by BEagle
I always thought that station call-outs in the early hours were fairly straightforward affairs. To cause true chaos, initiate the call-out at around 07:45 - 08:15! .... I watched the resulting chaos with much amusement as the boltholing staff collided with people still responding to the call-out.
Yes, we did one at Waddington around normal 'start work'. Similar traffic mayhem as some people tried to get their cars off-site whilst others were still trying to get in. It slowed down generation considerably!
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