Immigration & forces brats born abroad

[Heathrow Harry]

"Surprising that The Home Office / Foreign Office cannot offer definitive advice.2




The two most totally dysfunctional arms of ANY Government - are you kidding...........................

[ORAC]

Not surprising at all - since it is tied up in the case of the refugees trapped in Dhekalia since 2000. If children born there are declared to be British then they, and their parents will, presumably, be able to move to the UK. Their status remains tied up in the Courts.

I dont think it is their case particularly, but the possible mass arrival others by land from northern Cyprus or sea from Syria iif the SBAs were allowed to become a shortcut to the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...af-base-cyprus

[RedhillPhil]

Hmmm. My younger sister was born in Nicosia in 1954. She's coming for a visit in a few weeks time. I'll ask her what her passport position is.

[Ogre]

I had a friend who gave birth to her son while in Cyprus with her husband. Her story was that whilst in labour the ambulance had to rush her to the hospital from her MQ because if the son had been born closer to the MQ site the son would be classed as Turkish and eligible for Turkish military service.

As for my memsahib, she was born one of the Naval hospitals in Malta while her dad was posted out there. Listing her place of birth has caused questions over the years, so when it came to renew passports she applied for a replacement birth certificate in case her original got lost in the post.. The UK side of things had real problems finding the details, several emails were sent in both directions and eventually they found the right book and the right page and managed to issue a replacement.

The Maltese office returned the correct document within two weeks.

[Fareastdriver]

The Maltese office returned the correct document within two weeks.

A slight difference in the numbers born.

[ShyTorque]

Our first born was delivered in BMH Rinteln, Germany. Had he been born closer to home in the local civilian hospital he would have been obliged to carry out German National Service.

Our last born was born in a civilian hospital in China. That caused a few eyebrows to be raised when said offspring applied to join the RAF Reserve; it was resolved after quite some delay.

[Wander00]

Has anyone fed any of this into the wider Windrush enquiry?

[Avtur]

As for my memsahib, she was born one of the Naval hospitals in Malta while her dad was posted out there. Listing her place of birth has caused questions over the years,

I was also born in a RN hospital there, but have had no issues with Malta appearing on my British Passport. That said, I did recently have a US Immigration Officer ask why I was born in Malta. He looked puzzled when I told him that's where my mum was when I came out, but was quite happy when I explained that my father was in the military and based there.

[ShyTorque]

He looked puzzled when I told him that's where my mum was when I came out,

But where were you and how did your Mum react to the news?

[It's Not Working]

This 'eligible for national service' crops up repeatedly when discussing children born overseas. It was a hot topic when I served in Portugal but has it actually happened to anybody who didn’t make the overnight dash to the nearest British Consulate or is it simply a folk story that’s grown with the years?

[Fareastdriver]

It was a hot topic when I served in Portugal

Maybe some of their neighbours would think it is a good idea.

[Crromwellman]

INW
Its not an urban myth. One of my neighbour's sons in Germany got his German call-up papers and there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing to sort it out involving the Service authorities, the JSLO and the Consulate/Embassy before it was all sorted out

[Haraka]

Had a mate in School 6th form in 1960's ,a boarder of British parents, who got his French call-up papers. (Any way to get out of A-levels I suppose).No, he didn't go

[ian16th]

Wasn't Lawrence Dallaglio in danger of being called up in Italy when England went to play in Rome?

[It's Not Working]

Thanks for the replies. Fortunately it’s not something I have to concern myself with now but certainly food for thought for those that still serve.

[ORAC]

Haraka,

IIRC, several years ago, there was a Anglo-French lad working for Eurostar in their UK yard (which the French immigration ran with the transposed border) who was arrested and taken over to Paris for failing to turn up for his national service. He was released after the FO got involved, but it took a few days.

[Fitter2]

I guess the recent past immigration concerns have caused significant tightening up.

My wife was born in 1950 in Sri Lanka, of ex-military father who chose to be demobbed and continued to work out there; both he and his wife were born in India, although all 4 grandparents were born in Ireland near Cork. Her birth certificate was needed some years later after they returned to UK, and a duplicate supplied by their Embassy, in very colourful Sinhalese with several official stamps (but no English translation.)

Fast forward to 1979, when my job took me to South Africa for a one week trip which turned into nearly 3 months. The company offered for her to join me for the rest of my trip, which left her with the problem of getting a passport (previously we had only visited Europe using the Post Office counter pink travel cards, cheaper and simpler). Advised by a friend to apply at the Petty France Passport office ("they will see you are white") she arrived there with application form, photographs and 5 year old son in tow, and was interviewed. Officer went over available papers, and then asked if she had her parents marriage certificate. When she explained that during a heated argument with her father her mother had thrown it in the fire, poor chap visibly wilted, replied 'I suppose I can assume as they had 9 children, then they were married' and asked her to wait outside. 30 minutes later she was summoned and handed a shiny new passport, which has been renewed without question several times since, and used to travel extensively, including USA.

I don't know what would happen if she tried that today.

[hunterboy]

I had a mate who ended up doing his year in the “mili “ in Spain despite not having been there for 17 years and not speaking a word of Spanish. I reckon it would have been worth a year of my time to see how it would have turned out .

[racedo]

Cousin with extensive RAF service in Germany filling in family tree indicated that one of his offspring had been born in DDR, he had a senior moment and assured me was correct.
Clearly bothered him and got a call 2 hours later where he suddenly realised and had spent his time checking.
Offspring continually reminded him that he had no idea where he was born.

[Just This Once...]

Originally Posted by Crromwellman

INW
Its not an urban myth. One of my neighbour's sons in Germany got his German call-up papers and there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing to sort it out involving the Service authorities, the JSLO and the Consulate/Embassy before it was all sorted out

Seems odd for Germany. Like many service families abroad the status of dependants in Germany is not covered by EU, German or UK immigration and nationalisation laws, but under the Status of Forces Agreement and the various Supplements. For example:

Article 15

1. The obligation under German law to report births and deaths to a German registrar shall not apply either with respect to a child born to, or with respect to the death of, a member of a force or of a civilian component or a dependent; where, however, such birth or death is reported to a German registrar, registration shall take place in accordance with the provisions of German law.

2. The obligation to report births and deaths remains unaffected in cases where the child is, or the deceased was, a German.

In the specific case of German military call-up:

Article 7

In applying international agreements or other provisions in force in the Federal territory concerning residence (Aufenthalt) and settlement (Niederlassung), insofar as they relate to repatriation, to expulsion, to the extension of residence permits or to gainful occupation, periods of time spent in the Federal territory by any person as a member of a force or of a civilian component or as a dependent shall be disregarded.

Re Article 7

In the application of the German regulations on compulsory military service, periods of time spent in the Federal territory as a member of a force, of a civilian component or as a dependent shall be disregarded.

Almost all service brats born outside of the UK will come under a Status of Forces Agreement or some kind or another. For those rare cases where no relevant SOFA was in place the presumption is with the general provisions. The rules, laws and process for this stuff is nailed-down and always works in our favour. This of course has nothing to do with the high regard in which we are held but everything to do with the fact that much of the system is mirrored from the diplomatic world - they are the true masters of looking after themselves.