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Immigration & forces brats born abroad

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Immigration & forces brats born abroad

Old 2nd May 2018, 19:17
  #21 (permalink)  
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ORAC, as Milligan, my mother. Though she had problems she did get a British passport.

No I recall in the 70s it was stated that the nationality of the child born to Service parents was the country where the father would be domiciled except for his Service in the military.

As I owned and occupied my own home in Scotland it meant one daughter was technically Scottish. Now suppose a Servicemen in Cyprus bought a house in country if could be argued that his sprogs were Cyp.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 19:38
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought that a British servicemen serving overseas would be regarded as being domiciled in the UK as he is still bring taxed by the UK.

When I worked overseas for extended periods I was 'not domiciled in the UK for tax purposes', or something like that.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 19:52
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
4. CHILDREN WHO ARE BORN OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM TO BRITISH CITIZENS BY DESCENT

A child born outside the United Kingdom will not be a British citizen if neither parent is a British citizen otherwise than by descent. A parent who is a British citizen by descent cannot normally pass that status on. The exception to this is where the parent was in one of the 3 types of service listed in section 5 at the time of the birth.......
ORAC are you deliberately trying to alarm people or something?

Those words are on the page, but right below them are a bunch more words saying that the children born abroad of such people (British Citzens by descent) may well be elegible to obtain citizenship simply by filling in a form and paying some fees.

There's a link and everything. Why are you omitting that from your quotes?

Copy/pasted directly from your PDF in full:
-----
4. CHILDREN WHO ARE BORN OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM TO BRITISH CITIZENS BY DESCENT
A child born outside the United Kingdom will not be a British citizen if neither parent is a British citizen otherwise than by descent. A parent who is a British citizen by descent cannot normally pass that status on. The exception to this is where the parent was in one of the 3 types of service listed in section 5 at the time of the birth.

A child who is not a British citizen may be entitled to be registered as a British citizen.

Further information can be found on the Gov.Uk website:

https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen/children-born-outside-uk
-----

Not entirely sure why you stopped your quoting quite where you did!
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Old 2nd May 2018, 20:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Strangely enough I have not worried about this until now. Both my daughters were born at RAFH Wegberg in 1981 and 1982 and both births were registered at the British Consolate in person by myself. Both children have British passports.

My youngest daughter now 35 has recently applied for an Open University course grant and because she was born in Germany has been asked to provide proof of where she has resided since she was born. Today I have typed out all the married quarter addresses where we lived and it took more than one page but most of them were in Germany.

What is is going on, the people in power seem not to understand the system. Maybe they don’t realise we used to have the Royal Air Force that actually served in overseas postings.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 20:10
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lascaille View Post
UK passport holder born overseas. Been to the US countless times, including one trip this year. Place of birth as printed on my passport is very obviously an Arab city. No issues, ever.​​​
Maybe you should PM Shackman and tell his son which ports of entry to use.

I have heard of other instances of children that were born in TPMH Akrotiri, besides Shackman's son being refused entry into the USA.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 20:11
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DON T View Post

What is is going on, the people in power seem not to understand the system.
Does this surprise you?
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Old 2nd May 2018, 20:58
  #27 (permalink)  
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DON T - that is precisely my point. I have never paid this a second thought before - I never felt I had to.
Things feel different now.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 21:04
  #28 (permalink)  
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Lascaille, follow the link, the additional exemptions are very, very narrow.

I didn’t include it because, in the case in question, the only pertinent exemption is if the child was born out of wedlock. To wit.....

Born before 1 July 2006 to a British father

You can register as a British citizen if you:
  • were born before 1 July 2006
  • would have become a British citizen automatically if your parents had been married
  • are of ‘good character’ - see the guidance to form UKF for details......
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Old 3rd May 2018, 07:01
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Lascaille, follow the link, the additional exemptions are very, very narrow.

I didn’t include it because, in the case in question, the only pertinent exemption is if the child was born out of wedlock. To wit.....

Born before 1 July 2006 to a British father

You can register as a British citizen if you:
  • were born before 1 July 2006
  • would have become a British citizen automatically if your parents had been married
  • are of ‘good character’ - see the guidance to form UKF for details......
I think you misunderstand the situation.

Follow the link to the form MN1 guide, there are substantially more exemptions than that. As a person born outside the UK (and currently outside of the UK) I have looked into this.

​​​​​Basically, if you have lived in the UK for 3 years _ever_ in your life before having a child born abroad, and are a 'British citizen by descent' your child is elegible to receive british citizenship by registration unless your parents were also British citizens by descent.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-child-under-18-as-british-citizen-form-mn1

The following words copied from Page 10 of the MN-1 form PDF:
-----

To qualify under this section, the parent who is British by descent must have been born to a parent who was a British citizen otherwise than by descent (or if that person died, then they would have been a British citizen otherwise than by descent but for their death).

The British citizen by descent parent must have lived in the UK (or, if the child was born on or after 21 May 2002, in a British overseas territory) for a continuous period of 3 years at any time before the child’s birth. During that period they should not have absences exceeding 270 days. The application must be made whilst the child is under 18 years of age.

-----
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Old 3rd May 2018, 08:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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In Australia, we have some former politicians who, I expect, are somewhat expert now on the subject of passing on British citizenship, having recently been forced to resign from Parliament because of British (and other) citizenship that they were unaware they had.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 09:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ian16th View Post
I believe that in such cases, visa free entry, that is the norm for UK born British Citizens, is refused.
I know its a pain, but you son will have to get a visa if he wants entry into the USA.
My passports have always said 'RAF Akrotiri' and I have never had issues in entering the US
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Old 3rd May 2018, 10:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I was born in 1971 @ RAFH Wegberg. I once had an issue getting a passport in the mid 80's as my birth certificate is a photocopy of the consulate record, albeit franked and signed in ink. The person issuing my passport at the time was rather officious and wouldn't accept it as it 'was a copy'. Issue was resolved by his manager. Other than that, I've had no issues renewing passports / other documentation or entering EU / US.

In answer to the OP's question, I'm not concerned at the moment...
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Old 3rd May 2018, 11:11
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
I do have a British birth certificate, but as far as I know I only have one crinckled copy and the concern is what might happen if that were lost - are we (foreign born forces kids) in the wider system as we think/assume we are?
My suggestion, given you have some concern over what would happen if your Birth Certificate was lost, would be to apply for a duplicate one now. Cost is around £50 or so.

If your place of birth is going to cause a problem it is probably best to find out now.
Gov. Site for Birth Certificate
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Old 3rd May 2018, 11:32
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man View Post
My passports have always said 'RAF Akrotiri' and I have never had issues in entering the US
This is apparently not consistent. RAF Akrotiri is probably the best option, as the average immigration official probably doesn't know where it is.

I have heard of one case where it was incorrectly stated Republic of Cyprus!
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Old 3rd May 2018, 11:34
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I am sure this topic has been around the loop before? Anyhow, for UK Service personnel in RAFG, it was not automatic that your children born there were full UK citizens, unless you, the parents, correctly registered them at the Consulate and paid the registration fee. I seem to remember that there was a time limit on this process? Can anyone say if they have successfully been able to retrospectively modify their status (on this basis) recently as an adult?

OAP
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Old 3rd May 2018, 13:40
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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My daughter was born in Singapore. She has a British birth certificate, etc. and has no problem travelling around the world including the USA. When she was about 22 she found out that she could have applied for a Singaporean passport up to the age of 18 and possibly would have dual nationality.. This, at the time, would have made her job infinitely more rewarding.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 14:09
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
My daughter was born in Singapore. She has a British birth certificate, etc. and has no problem travelling around the world including the USA. When she was about 22 she found out that she could have applied for a Singaporean passport up to the age of 18 and possibly would have dual nationality.. This, at the time, would have made her job infinitely more rewarding.
My daughter was born in Singapore (RAF Hospital Changi) in 1971. Registered her birth in hospital and subsequently received a laminated Singapore birth certificate. I was advised to register her birth with British High Commission in downtown Singapore where I received a British birth cetificate. She has a British passport, been to the USA several times both for work and leisure purposes. Never had a problem entering the USA thus far. On the other hand, a visit to Singapore COULD have been problematic (when she was younger) due to her potentially being conscripted for service with the Singapore Armed Forces, although I have never heard of such action being taken.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 14:59
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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No1 son was born at TPMH Akrotiri and has travelled to the USA without problem.

Akrotiri is slightly unusual though, because although it's on the Island of Cyprus, he wasn't actually born in Cyprus, but on the Sovereign Base Area, which is British territory, unlike (I believe) those born in Germany etc.

I'll have to ask him what his status in on his passport.
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Old 4th May 2018, 08:33
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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The status of those born at Queen Mary's Hospital RAF Akrotiri, is discussed here.

Surprising that The Home Office / Foreign Office cannot offer definitive advice.

Births at RAF Akrotiri: is the Place-of-Birth "U.K." or "Cyprus"? - British Expats
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Old 4th May 2018, 08:43
  #40 (permalink)  

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My suggestion, given you have some concern over what would happen if your Birth Certificate was lost, would be to apply for a duplicate one now. Cost is around £50 or so.
Oooh - don't scare them off SWB. I get quite a few for family history research - £9.25 each including postage!
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