Military short of 800 pilots?
I think the numbers speak for themselves. If the military is undermanned to the tune of 800 pilots then clearly the grass actually is greener on the other side. For some, life is good and they still enjoy the job, but clearly there are not enough people who enjoy it to keep the manning numbers balanced.
I don't see how things will improve in the future as the system seems geared now to work better for shorter engagement periods. I was always surprised how many students were already calculating their options and laying the ground work for their next job.
IMHO allowing pilots to switch to a reserve role would be a good start to help bridge the flow and maybe even encourage some people back. I would quite happily return for 3 days a week and supplement the reduced income with my own business, I'd even suck up some time on Q.
Otherwise, money does talk, but I don't think there is the appetite to offer a genuinely enticing FRI. The small amount they offered me to stay was less than one months salary in the job I took up after leaving. I'm sure there was some uptake, but if those people were staying anyway then its really money down the drain in terms of actually retaining people.
I don't see how things will improve in the future as the system seems geared now to work better for shorter engagement periods. I was always surprised how many students were already calculating their options and laying the ground work for their next job.
IMHO allowing pilots to switch to a reserve role would be a good start to help bridge the flow and maybe even encourage some people back. I would quite happily return for 3 days a week and supplement the reduced income with my own business, I'd even suck up some time on Q.
Otherwise, money does talk, but I don't think there is the appetite to offer a genuinely enticing FRI. The small amount they offered me to stay was less than one months salary in the job I took up after leaving. I'm sure there was some uptake, but if those people were staying anyway then its really money down the drain in terms of actually retaining people.
The numbers aren’t because the grass is greener but for more reasons than that. The NAO report spells out some of them. Also, it is ‘aircrew’ not just pilots making up the 800, again buried in the document. The leaving rate is not much higher than normal, but there are 3 reasons why we are in this predicament.
1. We bought a flying training system for the needs of SDSR10 - the same requirement where we sacked 170 baby pilots, stopped WSO training and slowed down WSOp training. They are still delivering the same numbers for 2010 at the moment. Then we had SDSR15 where we were told to take 2 new Typhoon sqns, take in P8 and double the size of our RPAS fleet with Protector. That was great news but there was no extra money to increase the training schools.
2. We have recruited shed loads of baby pilots in the last couple of years, but due to point 1 we can’t train them all. If we trained them all overnight then the best part of 40% of the deficit would be gone.
3. We, the UK, have sold a bunch of aircraft with RAF training courses that have made the situation even worse for some fleets!
So the current exit rate is not the reason why we are where we are. It is effectively a series of decisions and circumstances that has influenced the current situation. If we keep peddling the news that the grass is greener when it probably isn’t (it’s just different with different challenges and opportunities) then we run the risk of people leaving for a job that also isn’t really for them.
1. We bought a flying training system for the needs of SDSR10 - the same requirement where we sacked 170 baby pilots, stopped WSO training and slowed down WSOp training. They are still delivering the same numbers for 2010 at the moment. Then we had SDSR15 where we were told to take 2 new Typhoon sqns, take in P8 and double the size of our RPAS fleet with Protector. That was great news but there was no extra money to increase the training schools.
2. We have recruited shed loads of baby pilots in the last couple of years, but due to point 1 we can’t train them all. If we trained them all overnight then the best part of 40% of the deficit would be gone.
3. We, the UK, have sold a bunch of aircraft with RAF training courses that have made the situation even worse for some fleets!
So the current exit rate is not the reason why we are where we are. It is effectively a series of decisions and circumstances that has influenced the current situation. If we keep peddling the news that the grass is greener when it probably isn’t (it’s just different with different challenges and opportunities) then we run the risk of people leaving for a job that also isn’t really for them.
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If there were a pay rise commsurate with my anticipated pension at pension point, an opportunity to cash in lump sum gratuity whilst serving, and not having my pension frozen on FTRS, I may have considered staying. But it's not.
Bottom line, to serve past 38, you'd be bonkers. In my case, MoD are getting to keep someone who otherwise they would be paying 12k pension per annum as well as me running the risk of getting hit with income tax if they change the rules on lump sum gratuity. The 5 years salary you lose by an inability to serve to 65 and no option for regulars to take a 60/70/80% contract as you get on in the tooth is another rather major issue for me and considering you will be at the top of your tree, costs you pot a lot of cash at this point. Easily doable, you can still do a 6 monther on a 60% with pre deployment stuff, just not much else!
I have friends in their first summer at a charter who with overtime on shorthaul have turned over 95k in their first year. The sums quoted above do not include the 10-15k in allowances, the tax perks, staff travel, bonuses and actually getting a representative pay rise for what they do. (airline industry 25% Vs 2% for me in the mob over the last decade).
I've had a hoofing time, but so have my mates in the industry, who don't get treated like they are committing fraud every time they claim subsOh, that's right they dont claim subs, it's given to them like we used to get.
The MoD needs to wake up and smell the coffee, if it wants to retain, STOP penalising reservists by not paying pension as FTRS you cheapskates! You need to pay a much bigger salary post pension point to account for the real world drop in pay you incur by deciding to stay. You need to consider early access to the lump sum and you need to realise that a 50% pension of cock all is still less than the 21% BA pay out over a lifetime of decent wages and a pay rise! It absolutely is about the money, as well as not knowing whether the government are going to continue to cut our benefits past summer, as they can't seem to decide on where the money is coming for to prevent capability cutbacks!
Done the sums, as have most of us. There is close to an 800k disparity between what I will finish up with between leaving at 38 and joining a airline and staying on. And staying on isn't the most lucrative option! The MoD can spin the figures, the pension scheme is nowhere near a 51% contributory. Nowhere near.
Bottom line, to serve past 38, you'd be bonkers. In my case, MoD are getting to keep someone who otherwise they would be paying 12k pension per annum as well as me running the risk of getting hit with income tax if they change the rules on lump sum gratuity. The 5 years salary you lose by an inability to serve to 65 and no option for regulars to take a 60/70/80% contract as you get on in the tooth is another rather major issue for me and considering you will be at the top of your tree, costs you pot a lot of cash at this point. Easily doable, you can still do a 6 monther on a 60% with pre deployment stuff, just not much else!
I have friends in their first summer at a charter who with overtime on shorthaul have turned over 95k in their first year. The sums quoted above do not include the 10-15k in allowances, the tax perks, staff travel, bonuses and actually getting a representative pay rise for what they do. (airline industry 25% Vs 2% for me in the mob over the last decade).
I've had a hoofing time, but so have my mates in the industry, who don't get treated like they are committing fraud every time they claim subsOh, that's right they dont claim subs, it's given to them like we used to get.
The MoD needs to wake up and smell the coffee, if it wants to retain, STOP penalising reservists by not paying pension as FTRS you cheapskates! You need to pay a much bigger salary post pension point to account for the real world drop in pay you incur by deciding to stay. You need to consider early access to the lump sum and you need to realise that a 50% pension of cock all is still less than the 21% BA pay out over a lifetime of decent wages and a pay rise! It absolutely is about the money, as well as not knowing whether the government are going to continue to cut our benefits past summer, as they can't seem to decide on where the money is coming for to prevent capability cutbacks!
Done the sums, as have most of us. There is close to an 800k disparity between what I will finish up with between leaving at 38 and joining a airline and staying on. And staying on isn't the most lucrative option! The MoD can spin the figures, the pension scheme is nowhere near a 51% contributory. Nowhere near.
Last edited by VinRouge; 23rd Apr 2018 at 07:12.
Roving,
"The justification for scrapping the RAF Aux Air Squadrons in 1957 was that with the Hunter replacing the Vampire and Meteor, it would be too difficult to convert reservists to swept wing advanced jets."
A commonly held but inaccurate view. The RAuxAF flying squadrons, and the RNVR Air branch, were disbanded for two main reasons, one that they were simply running out of aircrew and with the doing away of National Service pilots they would not be able to field even one complete squadron with aircrew! The second was that the 1957 White paper was about to reduce Fighter Command massively in an ill guided rush to missiles, and an accurate recognition that the main Soviet threat to the UK was in intermediate range ballistic missiles, which all the Hunters and Javelins in the world could do nothing to protect against, so another 20 Auxiliary squadrons which would have to be re-equipped and some method of manning them found, was an obvious target. On top of that there was the Conservative mandate to reduce defence expenditure at the same time as spending an absolute fortune developing the thermonuclear weapon.
"The justification for scrapping the RAF Aux Air Squadrons in 1957 was that with the Hunter replacing the Vampire and Meteor, it would be too difficult to convert reservists to swept wing advanced jets."
A commonly held but inaccurate view. The RAuxAF flying squadrons, and the RNVR Air branch, were disbanded for two main reasons, one that they were simply running out of aircrew and with the doing away of National Service pilots they would not be able to field even one complete squadron with aircrew! The second was that the 1957 White paper was about to reduce Fighter Command massively in an ill guided rush to missiles, and an accurate recognition that the main Soviet threat to the UK was in intermediate range ballistic missiles, which all the Hunters and Javelins in the world could do nothing to protect against, so another 20 Auxiliary squadrons which would have to be re-equipped and some method of manning them found, was an obvious target. On top of that there was the Conservative mandate to reduce defence expenditure at the same time as spending an absolute fortune developing the thermonuclear weapon.
Would it be possible to clarify the 51% into the pension bit? Is it not a FS scheme? Each year buys a fraction of your FS?
If they are paying 51% of your salary into a pension pot as a lump sump, I would suggest that is exceeding generous and you would be hard pushed to match that in any company outside of the RAF.
If they are paying 51% of your salary into a pension pot as a lump sump, I would suggest that is exceeding generous and you would be hard pushed to match that in any company outside of the RAF.
I was thinking just the same thing. I could be (probably am) being a bit thick, but I thought our annual pension contribution was calculated on the basis of salary x (years served / 47). So to get to 51% contributions surely you’d have to be serving beyond 23ish years?
)
If there were a pay rise commsurate with my anticipated pension at pension point, an opportunity to cash in lump sum gratuity whilst serving, and not having my pension frozen on FTRS, I may have considered staying.
Bottom line, to serve past 38, you'd be bonkers. In my case, MoD are getting to keep someone who otherwise they would be paying 12k pension per annum as well as me running the risk of getting hit with income tax if they change the rules on lump sum gratuity. The 5 years salary you lose by an inability to serve to 65 and no option for regulars to take a 60/70/80% contract as you get on in the tooth is another rather major issue for me and considering you will be at the top of your tree, costs you pot a lot of cash at this point. Easily doable, you can still do a 6 monther on a 60% with pre deployment stuff, just not much else!
Your £12k model isn’t quite there in my humble opinion. Firstly, for every year you stay your pension is growing by roughly £1k as by then your career average is starting to flatten. Further, if you go PAS then your earning potential plus all of your salary is pensionable. Last time I looked Level 35 was about £82k, which is all pensionable and equivalent to senior Wg Cdr or Jnr Gp Capt. Also, until recently for Flt Lts there was a £20k transfer bonus (a 2 year measure).
You can serve to at least 70 in FTRS-land if you wish - indeed there is one aircrew mate that fits that right now.
Some of the figures quoted on here are either:
1. Someone who has left with significant RAF wide-body hours with various training ticks getting a senior First Officer on long haul. That is not the norm amongst RAF Pilot leavers.
2. Someone that has taken 15yrs + to get to Training Captain, but hey that’s enough time for us all to get to CAS or CDS to earn the big wonga.
I personally think the money whether staying in or leaving is there or there abouts. It’s the whole deal that causes issue and the biggest problem is that we pay people to leave at 18/40 or 20/40 and nothing more if you stay. That short-termism decision is taken by most, but is that the strategy all along? How many aircrew do we need past 40 years old? Do we need lots of Sqn Ldr Manwarings, Flt Lt Wilsons and MACR Jones in a pseudo Dads Army RAF? The average length of service for Aircrew is about 20 years and so that is probably about right. The big problem is that we have failed to invest in our flying training system and so don’t have the capacity or capability to train the numbers we need - that is the real reason why we are short and not the fact that 100 or so leave every year.
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 23rd Apr 2018 at 19:21.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In Parliament this afternoon, it seems the 800 pilot shortage is over the next 20 years and relates to training slots. The shortage relate s directly with a high overseas requirement. They are looking to address this by reducing the number of overseas slots. Capita then came in for some stick with some mind blowing stats. Besides a large backlog in processing applicants, many of whom drift off to other jobs, they have issued a £750m rights issue and have debts of about £1.5bn. The Minister is confident that we are not looking at another Carillion.
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In Parliament this afternoon, it seems the 800 pilot shortage is over the next 20 years and relates to training slots. The shortage relate s directly with a high overseas requirement. They are looking to address this by reducing the number of overseas slots. Capita then came in for some stick with some mind blowing stats. Besides a large backlog in processing applicants, many of whom drift off to other jobs, they have issued a £750m rights issue and have debts of about £1.5bn. The Minister is confident that we are not looking at another Carillion.
Just a couple of small thoughts. 
The new terms seem to best suit a Pilot who serves and leaves relatively early. Certainly, a fairly standard young ex RAF Pilot can go easily into the RHS with an ATPL on 80k. You might need to pay for your type rating. LHS and 110k is only a few years of sound flying away. Plus the perks, of course. One thing to remember about Mil flying into your dotage is, you have to stay capable of meeting the medical and fitness requirements. You do not always have any ability to influence this and, the requirements may at some point be impossible to achieve.
Of course, civil Pilots suffer medical problems but, I suggest that it can be more difficult in the military. RO pay, and it's implications for pension abatement, has always been very poor. I do suspect that the Services will find it increasingly difficult to find people willing to fill those jobs for a pittance. Finally, the Service pension cannot be cashed-in or used as much of a financial instrument. This is a big factor now that the options to do things with private pensions have opened-up. 
OAP
The new terms seem to best suit a Pilot who serves and leaves relatively early. Certainly, a fairly standard young ex RAF Pilot can go easily into the RHS with an ATPL on 80k. You might need to pay for your type rating. LHS and 110k is only a few years of sound flying away. Plus the perks, of course. One thing to remember about Mil flying into your dotage is, you have to stay capable of meeting the medical and fitness requirements. You do not always have any ability to influence this and, the requirements may at some point be impossible to achieve.
Of course, civil Pilots suffer medical problems but, I suggest that it can be more difficult in the military. RO pay, and it's implications for pension abatement, has always been very poor. I do suspect that the Services will find it increasingly difficult to find people willing to fill those jobs for a pittance. Finally, the Service pension cannot be cashed-in or used as much of a financial instrument. This is a big factor now that the options to do things with private pensions have opened-up. OAP
No it’s 51-ish% of your annual salary, not total. Further, until recently it was final salary and now is career-averaging. But it is still one of the best pensions out there - way better than recent company ones that you can get, which are linked to the vagaries of the stock market. My Mrs’s pension has lost the best part of 60% of its value in recent years. One of the reasons why the housing market is a balooning bubble is that many are now investing in bricks and mortar. No need with a Government pension scheme (unless UK PLC goes down the toilet! )
Yes and I would like Lambo for an MT vehicle...come on, that will never happen. I think the only realistic option is some form of retention payment, not a short-term FRI, for all at 18/40 or 20/40. Either bringing forward the EDP or £20-£30k as a token jesture so that at least you get something for staying.
The new Flexible Employment Strategy allows for part-time working. Early days, but it is a possibility.
Your £12k model isn’t quite there in my humble opinion. Firstly, for every year you stay your pension is growing by roughly £1k as by then your career average is starting to flatten. Further, if you go PAS then your earning potential plus all of your salary is pensionable. Last time I looked Level 35 was about £82k, which is all pensionable and equivalent to senior Wg Cdr or Jnr Gp Capt. Also, until recently for Flt Lts there was a £20k transfer bonus (a 2 year measure).
You can serve to at least 70 in FTRS-land if you wish - indeed there is one aircrew mate that fits that right now.
Some of the figures quoted on here are either:
1. Someone who has left with significant RAF wide-body hours with various training ticks getting a senior First Officer on long haul. That is not the norm amongst RAF Pilot leavers.
2. Someone that has taken 15yrs + to get to Training Captain, but hey that’s enough time for us all to get to CAS or CDS to earn the big wonga.
I personally think the money whether staying in or leaving is there or there abouts. It’s the whole deal that causes issue and the biggest problem is that we pay people to leave at 18/40 or 20/40 and nothing more if you stay. That short-termism decision is taken by most, but is that the strategy all along? How many aircrew do we need past 40 years old? Do we need lots of Sqn Ldr Manwarings, Flt Lt Wilsons and MACR Jones in a pseudo Dads Army RAF? The average length of service for Aircrew is about 20 years and so that is probably about right. The big problem is that we have failed to invest in our flying training system and so don’t have the capacity or capability to train the numbers we need - that is the real reason why we are short and not the fact that 100 or so leave every year.
)Yes and I would like Lambo for an MT vehicle...come on, that will never happen. I think the only realistic option is some form of retention payment, not a short-term FRI, for all at 18/40 or 20/40. Either bringing forward the EDP or £20-£30k as a token jesture so that at least you get something for staying.
The new Flexible Employment Strategy allows for part-time working. Early days, but it is a possibility.
Your £12k model isn’t quite there in my humble opinion. Firstly, for every year you stay your pension is growing by roughly £1k as by then your career average is starting to flatten. Further, if you go PAS then your earning potential plus all of your salary is pensionable. Last time I looked Level 35 was about £82k, which is all pensionable and equivalent to senior Wg Cdr or Jnr Gp Capt. Also, until recently for Flt Lts there was a £20k transfer bonus (a 2 year measure).
You can serve to at least 70 in FTRS-land if you wish - indeed there is one aircrew mate that fits that right now.
Some of the figures quoted on here are either:
1. Someone who has left with significant RAF wide-body hours with various training ticks getting a senior First Officer on long haul. That is not the norm amongst RAF Pilot leavers.
2. Someone that has taken 15yrs + to get to Training Captain, but hey that’s enough time for us all to get to CAS or CDS to earn the big wonga.
I personally think the money whether staying in or leaving is there or there abouts. It’s the whole deal that causes issue and the biggest problem is that we pay people to leave at 18/40 or 20/40 and nothing more if you stay. That short-termism decision is taken by most, but is that the strategy all along? How many aircrew do we need past 40 years old? Do we need lots of Sqn Ldr Manwarings, Flt Lt Wilsons and MACR Jones in a pseudo Dads Army RAF? The average length of service for Aircrew is about 20 years and so that is probably about right. The big problem is that we have failed to invest in our flying training system and so don’t have the capacity or capability to train the numbers we need - that is the real reason why we are short and not the fact that 100 or so leave every year.
As another still-serving, that sounds about right m8.
I am Level 35 PA Flt Lt on AFPS05 so my whole 82k is taken into account on my grandfather rights pension and if I decide to go FTRS, I get the same income plus flying pay plus another, albeit small, pension.
And I get to fly every day and teach fresh-faced keen, motivated and intelligent young men and women how to fly and look forward to seeing them fly some of the best aircraft in the world.
Or I could be a glorified bus driver.
Taking cover......
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I have been out for many many years and am in the process of rejoining in an FTRS flying role. I have had a fabulous lower paid flying job during my time out but the numbers quoted here are way out from potential earnings unless you are very lucky and prepared to relocate your family. Locos pay RHS around £60k. I am not ready to be compulsory retired by the CAA and FTRS potentially allows flying to 65. I’m back and I’m fit, well and excited about putting my uniform back on. The military offers a lot that just isn’t out there.
As yourself what will suit you, too many people go because everyone else is.
As yourself what will suit you, too many people go because everyone else is.
No it’s 51-ish% of your annual salary, not total. Further, until recently it was final salary and now is career-averaging. But it is still one of the best pensions out there - way better than recent company ones that you can get, which are linked to the vagaries of the stock market.
I was referring to annual salary not final salary - apologies if I wasn't clear. It is all rather confusing though, because the publications issues to serving personnel clearly state that
every year, the MOD adds an amount equal to 1/47th of your annual pensionable earnings for that year, to your individual ‘pension pot’.
However, having delved into the bowels of the original publication, Annex F sheds a dim light on the difference. Put simply, I think the 51ish% relates to the capital value that needs to be squirreled away to provide the member's benefits in any given year based on the 1/47 accrual rate. But, and it's a big but, Annex F goes on to note that all these calculations are notional - there is no actual fund and we don't actually get 51% added to our effective remuneration package. If only we did, might keep some more people in.
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I have been out for many many years and am in the process of rejoining in an FTRS flying role. I have had a fabulous lower paid flying job during my time out but the numbers quoted here are way out from potential earnings unless you are very lucky and prepared to relocate your family. Locos pay RHS around £60k. I am not ready to be compulsory retired by the CAA and FTRS potentially allows flying to 65. I’m back and I’m fit, well and excited about putting my uniform back on. The military offers a lot that just isn’t out there.
As yourself what will suit you, too many people go because everyone else is.
As yourself what will suit you, too many people go because everyone else is.
Ok, put it another way, if you could secure a decent LH job as SFO with a legacy, or the realistic opportunity to be LHS within 3 years for a loco on 120K, would you say that it is a no-brainer? Luck really isn't in it, hard qualifications and experience is the main factor here. The CAA allows flying under an ATPL on multicrew till 65, so there is no issue there. I don't know many who haven't left and are now on at least 20K more than they left with within the mob. That includes some now working part time. I don't know many flying for the likes of J2, Easy etc whom haven't achieved command within 3-5 years.
Yes and I would like Lambo for an MT vehicle...come on, that will never happen. I think the only realistic option is some form of retention payment, not a short-term FRI, for all at 18/40 or 20/40. Either bringing forward the EDP or £20-£30k as a token jesture so that at least you get something for staying.
The average length of service for Aircrew is about 20 years and so that is probably about right.
Last edited by VinRouge; 23rd Apr 2018 at 23:02.
Sorry Vinrouge but that is just not correct. The average length of service of pilots leaving the Service in 2017 was 19yrs and 7 months and for WSO it was 24yrs and 10 months. See page 82 of the following links for the stats: https://assets.publishing.service.go...2017-08239.pdf
As for your other ‘facts’ they are equally doubtful. Locos don’t pay anywhere near the money you’re talking about - at EJ or Ryan you’ll be lucky to get just over half what you’re claiming.
There are quite a lot of people wanting to rejoin or come back as FTRS at the moment. The ‘grass’ for them is definately not the right shade. I’ll say it again, the reason why we have an aircrew shortage is because we are not set up to train enough. Look at the outflow figures in the link above and the fact is obvious - in 2017 110 pilots left and we trained less than half that (stats on page 68 - average ET/PVR about 50-60 per year). The maths isn’t that difficult!
As for your other ‘facts’ they are equally doubtful. Locos don’t pay anywhere near the money you’re talking about - at EJ or Ryan you’ll be lucky to get just over half what you’re claiming.
There are quite a lot of people wanting to rejoin or come back as FTRS at the moment. The ‘grass’ for them is definately not the right shade. I’ll say it again, the reason why we have an aircrew shortage is because we are not set up to train enough. Look at the outflow figures in the link above and the fact is obvious - in 2017 110 pilots left and we trained less than half that (stats on page 68 - average ET/PVR about 50-60 per year). The maths isn’t that difficult!
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 24th Apr 2018 at 17:47.
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Sorry, you are wrong.Loco pay:
easyJet (UK Contract pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools)
Easy Fo base is 51k, not including allowance of of 20 quid per sector. So add another 7k on that. 57k. That doesn't include overtime. Increasing to 105k base as a skipper with an anticipated 12k on top flying pay.
Top pay for a captain at easyJet is in excess of 136K.
jet 2:
Jet2.com pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools
FO base 58k, climbing to 66k with anticipated allowance of 2800.
Day off payments of 300 quid a day.
Captain base, 100k, with an anticipated allowance of 6k. Day off overtime payment 470 quid.
Ryanair, despite their working conditions are offering skippers between 120-150k euro a year.
As for the age of leavers, I'd be interested to see if that includes all GD branch, including hangar on staffers, or those who actually fly, and which stream. Those stats include pretty much the main cadre of VSO who will of course stay on till 55, or certainly much longer. 1* and above They account for 20% of the pilot cadre. see page 27. It also shows us down a whopping 23% for Junior Officer pilots.
No agenda, just pointing out facts. And I agree the grass isn't greener. But one thing you absolutely cannot argue is that the financial settlement in any way compares to the commercial world. It doesnt, especially after the 10 year pay freeze. Reality is, many ARE going direct legacy carrier and those that aren't are looking at Direct entry command with a number of smaller but reputable carriers. Some in their second year as first officers have turned 100k when short notice overtime has been accounted for.
The flying pay review screwed the pooch by not putting aircrew on a similar scheme to the Docs and the Lawyers. Last real opportunity to stop stop the outflow tap, sadly missed.
easyJet (UK Contract pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools)
Easy Fo base is 51k, not including allowance of of 20 quid per sector. So add another 7k on that. 57k. That doesn't include overtime. Increasing to 105k base as a skipper with an anticipated 12k on top flying pay.
Top pay for a captain at easyJet is in excess of 136K.
jet 2:
Jet2.com pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools
FO base 58k, climbing to 66k with anticipated allowance of 2800.
Day off payments of 300 quid a day.
Captain base, 100k, with an anticipated allowance of 6k. Day off overtime payment 470 quid.
Ryanair, despite their working conditions are offering skippers between 120-150k euro a year.
As for the age of leavers, I'd be interested to see if that includes all GD branch, including hangar on staffers, or those who actually fly, and which stream. Those stats include pretty much the main cadre of VSO who will of course stay on till 55, or certainly much longer. 1* and above They account for 20% of the pilot cadre. see page 27. It also shows us down a whopping 23% for Junior Officer pilots.
No agenda, just pointing out facts. And I agree the grass isn't greener. But one thing you absolutely cannot argue is that the financial settlement in any way compares to the commercial world. It doesnt, especially after the 10 year pay freeze. Reality is, many ARE going direct legacy carrier and those that aren't are looking at Direct entry command with a number of smaller but reputable carriers. Some in their second year as first officers have turned 100k when short notice overtime has been accounted for.
The flying pay review screwed the pooch by not putting aircrew on a similar scheme to the Docs and the Lawyers. Last real opportunity to stop stop the outflow tap, sadly missed.
Last edited by VinRouge; 24th Apr 2018 at 06:28.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Historically that appears to be the norm. Given a 38/16 ToS, some pilots retiring at 55 (38 years) and others retiring at earlier option points, it all appears predictable. The unpredictable was the wholesale chopping of fleets.
Look at the outflow figures in the link above and the fact is obvious - in 2017 110 pilots left and we trained less than half that
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 24th Apr 2018 at 19:25.
The CAA allows flying under an ATPL on multicrew till 65
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Really? Before they are trained?
Historically that appears to be the norm. Given a 38/16 ToS, some pilots retiring at 55 (38 years) and others retiring at earlier option points, it all appears predictable. The unpredictable was the wholesale chopping of fleets.
and that is where that 20 year deficit would arise and as discussed in Parliament yesterday. I must say, apart from the absence of JC, the opposition questions were thoughtful, well balanced and very helpful to the military. At least the Military vote is set to rise 0.5% above the 2% year on year. I think that means 2.01, 2.02.
Historically that appears to be the norm. Given a 38/16 ToS, some pilots retiring at 55 (38 years) and others retiring at earlier option points, it all appears predictable. The unpredictable was the wholesale chopping of fleets.
and that is where that 20 year deficit would arise and as discussed in Parliament yesterday. I must say, apart from the absence of JC, the opposition questions were thoughtful, well balanced and very helpful to the military. At least the Military vote is set to rise 0.5% above the 2% year on year. I think that means 2.01, 2.02.
Last edited by VinRouge; 24th Apr 2018 at 08:53.