Military short of 800 pilots?
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Military short of 800 pilots?
According to this NAO report. I didnt think there was as many as 800 pilots at full strength anyway!
Britain's armed forces are "significantly" understaffed in critical areas - including a shortfall of more than 2,000 engineers and 800 pilots, according to Whitehall's spending watchdog.
In all, more than 8,200 regulars are needed to bridge what the National Audit Office (NAO) describes as the "largest gap in a decade".
As of January, the country's full-time military was operating at 5.7% below target, according to the NAO.
Around 2,400 more engineers are needed, most of them as weapons engineers in the Royal Navy, 700 intelligence analysts and 800 pilots - especially in the RAF.
The NAO also identified 102 trades where there are not enough trained regulars to cover operational tasks without cancelling leave or training.
Problem areas include engineering, intelligence, logistics, pilots, communications and medical.
The NAO report criticised the Ministry of Defence's reliance on young recruits in lower ranks to develop and be trained over time.
A soldier from the 1st Battalion Royal Regiment Fusiliers leaves the security of the camp walls to conduct a dawn foot patrol in the Nahr-e Saraj district, Helmand Province, Afghanistan after leaving base Sterga 2. PRESS ASSOCIATION Photo. Picture date: Saturday October, 5, 2013. See PA story DEFENCE Afghanistan. Photo credit should read: Ben Birchall/PA Wire
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The Ministry of Defence says the military has enough to meet operational requirements
This has not closed the gaps quickly enough, the NAO said, adding that a 24% shortfall in the number of regular recruits between 2016 and 2017 had worsened the situation.
Meanwhile, the percentage of those leaving the armed forces voluntarily has increased from 3.8% a year in March 2010 to 5.6% in December 2017.
But new demands, such as the increasing risk of cyber and electronic attacks, will "add to the pressure to increase capability in some trades that already have shortfalls" the report added.
Meg Hillier, chairwoman of the Public Accounts Committee, said: "In these uncertain times, it is more critical than ever that Britain has a well-staffed armed forces with the technical know-how to handle threats to national security.
"But the NAO report shows that the armed forces are woefully below compliment, especially in crucial areas like intelligence and engineering."
Ms Hillier said: "Without more innovative methods to attract and retain staff, the UK risks continuing with big gaps in capability and overstretching already hard working and crucial service personnel," she said.
NAO chief Sir Amyas Morse said: "The department needs to fundamentally change its approach to develop skilled personnel and address the long-established shortfalls that persist."
An MoD Spokesman said recruiting and retaining talent was a "top priority" and there were many schemes to attract and keep skilled personnel.
Britain's armed forces are "significantly" understaffed in critical areas - including a shortfall of more than 2,000 engineers and 800 pilots, according to Whitehall's spending watchdog.
In all, more than 8,200 regulars are needed to bridge what the National Audit Office (NAO) describes as the "largest gap in a decade".
As of January, the country's full-time military was operating at 5.7% below target, according to the NAO.
Around 2,400 more engineers are needed, most of them as weapons engineers in the Royal Navy, 700 intelligence analysts and 800 pilots - especially in the RAF.
The NAO also identified 102 trades where there are not enough trained regulars to cover operational tasks without cancelling leave or training.
Problem areas include engineering, intelligence, logistics, pilots, communications and medical.
The NAO report criticised the Ministry of Defence's reliance on young recruits in lower ranks to develop and be trained over time.
A soldier from the 1st Battalion Royal Regiment Fusiliers leaves the security of the camp walls to conduct a dawn foot patrol in the Nahr-e Saraj district, Helmand Province, Afghanistan after leaving base Sterga 2. PRESS ASSOCIATION Photo. Picture date: Saturday October, 5, 2013. See PA story DEFENCE Afghanistan. Photo credit should read: Ben Birchall/PA Wire
Image:
The Ministry of Defence says the military has enough to meet operational requirements
This has not closed the gaps quickly enough, the NAO said, adding that a 24% shortfall in the number of regular recruits between 2016 and 2017 had worsened the situation.
Meanwhile, the percentage of those leaving the armed forces voluntarily has increased from 3.8% a year in March 2010 to 5.6% in December 2017.
But new demands, such as the increasing risk of cyber and electronic attacks, will "add to the pressure to increase capability in some trades that already have shortfalls" the report added.
Meg Hillier, chairwoman of the Public Accounts Committee, said: "In these uncertain times, it is more critical than ever that Britain has a well-staffed armed forces with the technical know-how to handle threats to national security.
"But the NAO report shows that the armed forces are woefully below compliment, especially in crucial areas like intelligence and engineering."
Ms Hillier said: "Without more innovative methods to attract and retain staff, the UK risks continuing with big gaps in capability and overstretching already hard working and crucial service personnel," she said.
NAO chief Sir Amyas Morse said: "The department needs to fundamentally change its approach to develop skilled personnel and address the long-established shortfalls that persist."
An MoD Spokesman said recruiting and retaining talent was a "top priority" and there were many schemes to attract and keep skilled personnel.
I heard there was a large tranche of Tucano Pilot Officers made redundant from the RAF a few years ago who may like another bite at the cherry...?
Problem is, they may have found other jobs by now!
Problem is, they may have found other jobs by now!
Maybe chasing AAC pilots for a bit of chickenfeed flying pay which was supposedly paid in error was not the best plan?
Seeing as the RAO and NAO punitive action against them was the final straw in the PVR deluge!!
Seeing as the RAO and NAO punitive action against them was the final straw in the PVR deluge!!
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That nice Mr Corbyn must be pleased as he has frequently pressed for reductions in the armed forces. Of course if he ever gets into power we won’t need armed forces as we will never enter into combat.
BV, got to say, money wasn't the answer for me...!
I mean, within sensible limits. They could have offered to pay me £150-200k a year and I'd probably have considered it. But even an old-school FRI3 payment just isn't enough when the job starts to grind so much it's affecting your health.
There were a dozen things they could have done to encourage me to stay, but it seems no-one could be bothered; from my Flt Cdr, up through the station hierarchy, and similarly through the Manning machine as well.
I remember saying this to an ex-boss, whose reply was that the "dozen things they could do to make me stay are probably different from the next guy, and we can't do a dozen things for everyone." Thing is, I think that there'd probably be a lot of overlap there, and even doing one thing for some people might have been nice.
Everyone I know who's still in is speaking to people who've left about jobs and so on; and I mean every pilot I served with. 800 short now is probably looking pretty good compared to a few years down the line.
I mean, within sensible limits. They could have offered to pay me £150-200k a year and I'd probably have considered it. But even an old-school FRI3 payment just isn't enough when the job starts to grind so much it's affecting your health.
There were a dozen things they could have done to encourage me to stay, but it seems no-one could be bothered; from my Flt Cdr, up through the station hierarchy, and similarly through the Manning machine as well.
I remember saying this to an ex-boss, whose reply was that the "dozen things they could do to make me stay are probably different from the next guy, and we can't do a dozen things for everyone." Thing is, I think that there'd probably be a lot of overlap there, and even doing one thing for some people might have been nice.
Everyone I know who's still in is speaking to people who've left about jobs and so on; and I mean every pilot I served with. 800 short now is probably looking pretty good compared to a few years down the line.
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The perfect storm of AFPS 05/15 vs 75/15 in looming.
Once those that are currently caught in the AFPS 75 pension trap leave at their option point, the entire military will see people doing their return of service and then leaving.
Waiting 37 yrs for an immediate pension just isnt going to cut it for 99% of people....
Once those that are currently caught in the AFPS 75 pension trap leave at their option point, the entire military will see people doing their return of service and then leaving.
Waiting 37 yrs for an immediate pension just isnt going to cut it for 99% of people....
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It might not be about the money, but money is the answer. Better pay, better pensions and less penny pinching. It might not solve everyone’s issues but it will keep more people for longer.
As an 'Int O" who was attracted elsewhere, I did note that nobody ever from the posting Admin ever called me in and asked:
"Why are you leaving?"
On another occasion a "poster" in the West Country confided in me that he had a "difficulty" with my career profile , since he was not cleared in to know what I did!
"Why are you leaving?"
On another occasion a "poster" in the West Country confided in me that he had a "difficulty" with my career profile , since he was not cleared in to know what I did!
Last edited by Haraka; 19th Apr 2018 at 09:28.
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Agree with the comments here, when I left there was no questions asked by anyone in the command chain. Which did surprise me after 23yrs service and consistent above average ratings.
Many that I know would consider rejoining as a civvie to fly in the military. It has been done in the Chinook fleet with some instructional posts funded by Boeing. Why not with other platforms?
Many that I know would consider rejoining as a civvie to fly in the military. It has been done in the Chinook fleet with some instructional posts funded by Boeing. Why not with other platforms?
Actually, when I joined the RAF in 1964 I have no idea what I was paid and did not care, All I knew was that it was sufficient for beer and a little Triumph Spitfire and, importantly, a nice aeroplane to fly very regularly. All over the World too.
I am sure that is the case for many people, me included. I also include the reason why people used to join the military. It wasn't a job, it was a lifestyle and a job for life, career.
You would be housed, fed, clothed and looked after. In return you gave your life for Queen and country. At the end your career, you would be given priority on council housing list and a pension. Fair deal.
As others have mentioned many times, most if not all of the 'lifestyle' aspects have disappeared.
Some will say it was better then. No it was different and today's recruits have a different outlook and expectations. Good luck to them.
Sharpend
I have the greatest respect for you but I’m afraid your last post comes across with all the smugness of a fully paid up member of the baby boomer generation (or perhaps slightly before then?!).
You were doubtless able to buy a fine house for a relative pittance when you reached the end of your service. That is no longer the case. Young pilots nowadays will be lucky to purchase a boxy, new build 3 bed semi. That is why they are forced to look elsewhere whether they are loyal to the crown or not.
As an example. In my time alone (18.5 years in the RAF) a Flt Lt pilots salary (basing it on myself as a PAS Flt Lt compared to my contemporary) has roughly doubled. The average house price has outstripped that rise by a fair way.
Whereas in 1999 the average house price was perhaps 2-3 times the average salary it is now 7-8 times (these numbers are approximate but not far off).
So, whilst I appreciate your position and light hearted response I would suggest some empathy is required from, not just yourself, but anyone of your vintage when they attempt to make sense of the feelings of the modern generation.
I’m not trying to be a d1ck but it needed saying.
BV
You were doubtless able to buy a fine house for a relative pittance when you reached the end of your service. That is no longer the case. Young pilots nowadays will be lucky to purchase a boxy, new build 3 bed semi. That is why they are forced to look elsewhere whether they are loyal to the crown or not.
As an example. In my time alone (18.5 years in the RAF) a Flt Lt pilots salary (basing it on myself as a PAS Flt Lt compared to my contemporary) has roughly doubled. The average house price has outstripped that rise by a fair way.
Whereas in 1999 the average house price was perhaps 2-3 times the average salary it is now 7-8 times (these numbers are approximate but not far off).
So, whilst I appreciate your position and light hearted response I would suggest some empathy is required from, not just yourself, but anyone of your vintage when they attempt to make sense of the feelings of the modern generation.
I’m not trying to be a d1ck but it needed saying.
BV
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BV, indeed, as a flt it i bought our last home before my pay topped £20k so the 2-3 multiple was correct. About 5 years later my house price rose at the same rate as my monthly pay. When we sold in February an Air Cdre made an offer but could not raise the mortgage.
Everything changes.
Everything changes.
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3 whole meals a day.Yes, I kid you not.
That was great until I discovered
1.Bints
2.Beer
Had to realign my financial paradigms after that!